Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Welcome, ACLU

medium.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

871–880 of 1001 posts

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#871

Post by empath75 »

finid wrote: post #798
snowwrestler wrote: post #768

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are telling people to fight back against Trump's executive orders that threaten civil liberties. They are not anti-Trump, in that if Trump rescinded his problematic EOs, the ACLU would stop fighting him. The issue is not the man, it's the policy.

The issue is not the man, it's the policy. But how do you separate the man from his policies? That would be like trying to separate a man from his religious conviction. A mans policies reflect what he believes in.

The presidency isn't meant to be a cult of personality and good presidents will sometimes implement policies that they personally disagree with.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#872

Post by egopulsus »

dwaxe wrote: post #716
lol214365 wrote: post #710

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ACLU has completely deviated from their declared mission -- protecting civil liberties -- in recent weeks. The ACLU opposes a border wall. Who's civil liberties are violated by a border wall? The ACLU opposes the immigration and refugee EO. Who's civil liberties are violated by foreign nationals not being permitted into the United States?

They literally tell you. Border wall: https://www.aclu.org/news/aclu-trumps-border-and-sanctuary-c... One of dozens of articles on the refugee EO: https://www.aclu.org/blog/speak-freely/trump-begins-his-unco...

wow... aclu is a joke. unconstitutional? sorry but illegal immigrants are not protected by the constitution. why do the democrats fail to understand this?

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#873

Post by humanrebar »

Miner49er wrote: post #776
TheOsiris wrote: post #721

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should a Jewish restaurant be compelled to serve neo-nazis wearing Nazi uniforms?

Probably not. That's a very different situation. Neo-nazis make a choice to be neo-nazis.

People don't pick whether God exists.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#874

Post by asveikau »

freehunter wrote: post #814
asveikau wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it new if they've been promising to do this for ~1 year? This is exactly my point, that people on here flame you into the ground if you talk about "politics", but it could be that some of us 1 year ago would have been legitimately trying to talk about what was to come.

Some day we're going to have flying cars. There, now when we actually get flying cars, no one is allowed to talk about it. You see the point there? Lots of crazy people run for president and say crazy things, that doesn't mean you panic about it right then, because the odds of them getting elected is so slim. And lots of people say crazy things to get elected, then never do those things because those things would be…

Sounds to me like you didn't accurately analyze the threat and now you are making excuses about how nobody could see it. People saw it.

PS: I have followed US elections before, I am a DC native and followed them since I was a kid (now in my thirties) - I have observed differences between campaign promises and execution/governance, but this one was still pretty easy to predict based on what we knew before. The bigger shock is that he won in the first place.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#875

Post by nvahalik »

nickparker wrote: post #279
ErikVandeWater wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes this is somewhat dangerous for YC. I would like to see that this was planned before November and their support was not determined by who the president turned out to be. Combined with the outspoken politics of Paul Graham1, I get the feeling people who identify as conservatives may not feel welcome at YC. 1 http://twitter.com/paulg EDIT: I changed "conservatives" to "people who identify as conservatives" to clarif…

I think neither PG's tweets nor this ACLU post are actually against the broad ideas of conservatism. If you believe in individual freedom, small government, low taxes, and heavy use of market solutions, I haven't seen anything from YC that runs against those ideas. The issues YC seems to oppose are nativism/xenophobia and authoritarianism. Opposition to the former is a wholly rational decision to preserve YC's access…

> Lastly, there exists a wing of American conservatism which is significantly more racist, sexist, and homophobic than the national average. I think you're right, that group would not feel welcome at YC nor should they. Their exclusion is based on their personal views, which they are capable of changing. Their inclusion would make others feel excluded on the basis of immutable traits, which is far worse in my opinion.

I'm not sure which "wing" of conservatism you are speaking of but I'm neither "alt-right" but my views are likely to be labeled as something like "homophobic." I get the feeling that national average you speak of isn't really average so much as it's left-leaning and acceptable in your views.

I do agree that there are people who are vehemently and dangerously bigoted and I gladly condemn them. However, there are people who have extremely reasoned yet different beliefs than most people you'd likely find at YC.

If the left is going to continue to preach "inclusivity" and "diversity" then it would behoove them to actually ensure that there are those things rather than limited everyone to a particular worldview that makes people feel comfortable.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#876

Post by comicjk »

treehau5 wrote: post #246
CydeWeys wrote: post #11

I don't know exactly what this means, as the implementation details are hazy, but if this entails substantial support to the ACLU (in terms of lawyers, money, or both), then that is awesome. I donated to the ACLU yesterday and I'm encouraging everyone I know to do the same.

I don't donate to the ACLU because I believe in the civil rights for all people, outside the womb, and inside. Is there a similar organization I can donate to?

I appreciate that you're concerned for people inside and outside of the womb, but I think you're not paying enough attention to a third group: the people who are the womb.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#877

Post by chx »

I have debated myself but did not donate the ACLU this weekend. (I did donate to the Victoria Islamic Center Rebuilding though.) I hate to be right. Working with an organization where Peter Thiel is a partner is a betrayal of everything the ACLU stands for.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#878

Post by [deleted] »

chx wrote: post #877

I have debated myself but did not donate the ACLU this weekend. (I did donate to the Victoria Islamic Center Rebuilding though.) I hate to be right. Working with an organization where Peter Thiel is a partner is a betrayal of everything the ACLU stands for.

[deleted]

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#879

Post by shawn-butler »

GeneralMayhem wrote: post #241
tdkl wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might want to ask Obama why he left them out in 2011. But considering the existing bullshit rollercoaster, you ask why MORE countries weren't banned ? This video presents all points of hypocrisy : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNu4xU9qOEM

I'd rather ask Congress, since they were the ones who wrote the list. http://www.snopes.com/trump-immigration-order-obama/

Sec-State under the previous administration was tasked by Congress and they came up with the list.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1187

See section (12) Not present in Iraq, Syria, or any other country or area of concern

It is unbelievable how bad the media is now at doing their job of informing the public.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#880

Post by burkaman »

ErikVandeWater wrote: post #12

Does the ACLU have any new product/entrepreneurial goals for the future? Without, it would seem this is a somewhat unusual association.

YC has been donating to nonprofits for a few years. It's not an investment, and the relationship is not the same as the one they have with startups. I think the general idea is just to support a good cause, and give them access to a bunch of rich entrepreneurs who might want to partner or donate.
Post reply on HN