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Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

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Re: Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

#861

Post by acjohnson55 »

aragot wrote: post #715
jabelk wrote: post #660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me. Right here. I am a woman and while I can obviously recognize that it is a joke, seeing these "jokes" everywhere is literally the worst part of my day. Reading tech news, browsing this site, and on every other technology related site, 10+ times every day I am inundated with these hilarious "jokes" implicitly suggesting that this community, this interest, is for a specific group of people that I am not, and will ne…

As read in an earlier HN post, being a programmer is all about having been socially excluded from evry circle. At 7 yo, excluded from football. At 8 from the local bike boys. At 16 from any group at high school. At student age because I'm a nerd. At 29 because a woman stepped ahead for the management job I hoped for. Do I look unhappy? I still have the best job someone could hope for. And tolerant friends. Part of th…

A similar experience of being an outsider also pushed me into programming. I think it's sad that although so many in programming can directly empathize with feeling excluded, there's such a push to protect exclusionary aspects of the programming world.

Congrats to us, we've paid forward the insults, instead of making a better space.

Re: Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

#862

Post by nknighthb »

wutbrodo wrote: post #858
nknighthb wrote: post #758

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> including a lot of time spent with friends in fraternities and at frat parties in colleges Then you're most likely exactly the kind of person I'm talking about.

Ha oh I see, you're one of those simpletons who thinks that all people who meet a certain arbitrary criterion must be exactly the same. I've never even been close to the jock/douchebag-frat stereotype (I actually can't think of a single trait that I have that fits: short, unfashionable, hell I didn't even party that much in college). But hey, whatever helps you get over the trauma of getting constantly stuffed in loc…

You're just reinforcing my point.

Re: Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

#863

Post by a3_nm »

acjohnson55 wrote: post #860
jacobtracey wrote: post #851

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you possibly make this generalisation? On IRC, people can assume whatever they like. Everyone might as well be naked running around doing the tango, if that is how that person chooses to see those users. Why would a person even give a microseconds thought on whether or not I was white, black, male, female, whatever, and even if they do -- why is it _my_ responsibility as person putting the content out there t…

I don't think he's saying that there's anything fundamentally not neutral about IRC as a technical product. I think he's pointing out that the fact that it is gender neutral from a technical point of view does not mean that the experience is gender neutral in practice, because, as you've pointed out, people bring their own biases to the medium. I believe his point is he realized that technology alone does not obviate…

Yes, this seems like a very clean way to phrase what I intended to say.

Re: Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

#864

Post by smsm42 »

blahedo wrote: post #99

Great idea; shame about the name. Here's the problem with using words like "bro" (however jokingly): the problem is not with what you [0] are thinking when you read the word "bro", but with what other people , especially newcomers, are thinking. The locker-room atmosphere that stuff like this creates is a huge barrier to entry for a lot of people, women especially, who infer that on top of all the technically difficu…

It is fascinating how hard some people work to be offended at most trivial things. Of course "bro" is offensive - it is about males. Of course "babe" would be offensive too - it's a sexist term for a woman. Of course "professional independent highly achieving woman" would be a much better name - and still offensive, since it obviously implies the only thing such women are good for is to be the help for men who do the real work, just bringing them manuals or delivering stuff from here to there, not contributing anything of substance. And to think we use such tools as BROwsers... No wonder women don't use the internet. What? They do? Well, they must be feeling awful anyway, especially when they see HIStory staring right at them from the screen, constantly reminding them that "NO GIЯLS ALOUD".

We have companies with names like Yahoo and products named like gimp and git, but of course something named "bro" can't be good.

Re: Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

#865

Post by smsm42 »

vectorjohn wrote: post #360
mumbi wrote: post #296

Great idea. Never been a fan of the whole bro thing, but I say keep the name. If the women want a 'sister pages', let them make it.

If anyone was looking for an example of why the name is a problem, mumbi here is a perfect one. This is why we can't have nice things.

Alternative version: you can't have a nice things because a random troll can play you like a cheap banjo.

Re: Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

#866

Post by crasshopper »

SrslyJosh wrote: post #321

Pro (not bro) tip: 1. PAGER=less; export PAGER 2. man somecmd 3. Type "G" and hit ctrl-b once or twice Examples in man pages! Who knew?

I think the point is that `man` pages usually don't have enough examples. I've started switching to `info` for commands I don't know the first thing about. But a step further in the direction of examples would be helpful, especially for newbies.

Re: Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

#867

Post by SPSteinbeck »

Steuard wrote: post #657
overgard wrote: post #625

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Signals". Ok. So what's the signal being sent to women by a bunch of men that think that women are so weak that a mild mild MILD joke about fratboys is going to chase them away? (A lame joke that doesn't even involve women directly). Do you really think they're that emotionally fragile? Don't you see how incredibly patronizing this discussion is towards the people it's supposedly benefiting? Which do you think is mo…

It's difficult for me to see how you read my post as suggesting that the awesome women I know (or women in general) are emotionally fragile. I really tried to go out of my way to avoid giving that impression; that's why I called them "unflappable", among many other things. I do understand the point you're aiming for here. But when the premise of your objection is so explicitly at odds with my actual words, it might b…

fag

Re: Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

#868

Post by slack3r »

eropple wrote: post #804
tomjen3 wrote: post #753

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The risk isn't that someone gets all huffy and makes a big deal about being offended. It's that people who you would want to participate silently think to themselves "I don't want to deal with this" and then go away. It's explicitly not the oversensitive feminists I care about here; it's the reasonable, intelligent women and men who have a number of options on where to spend their time and choose not to spend it in…

That you choose to dismiss others' humanity (as a hand-wave about "feelings") in favor of inert things is to me troubling and I'm pretty glad HN has not done as you'd like. People are important . They're much, much more important than One Weird Trick That Makes You Love Haskell. "Tech" isn't a thing except in how people-- people --use it and are affected by it and how they, in turn affect the world around them. It's…

'''Archimedes will be remembered when Aeschylus is forgotten, because languages die and mathematical ideas do not. "Immortality" may be a silly word, but probably a mathematician has the best chance of whatever it may mean.'''

- A Mathematician's Apology, Hardy

''' "Tech" isn't a thing except in how people--people--use it and are affected by it and how they, in turn affect the world around them.'''

Pure mathematics, for most of history has had zero relevance and zero effect on society. So I suppose to you, "pure mathematics" isn't a thing because it is completely removed from the world.

I personally find math and "tech" more interesting than people. Just saying..

Re: Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

#869

Post by IbJacked »

KVFinn wrote: post #270
IbJacked wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What does intent matter? I would argue that intent is all that matters. If people want to foist their interpretation onto the word, that's their issue, not mine or the author's (if he wasn't relating it to "brogrammer" that is, I can't speak to his thought process). The vast majority of people would consider "bro" a substitute colloquialism for "dude", and such. And, I would be willing to bet that that is how most…

>I would argue that intent is all that matters. We are talking about whether the name is a good choice, right? How is intent even relevant? If I'm making something and trying to get other people to use it then all the matters is how a potential audience sees it?

> We are talking about whether the name is a good choice, right? Not entirely, or at least I wasn't. As to whether or not it's a good choice, you are absolutely right, how it's seen by your potential audience is important.

On the other hand, it could be an opportunity "take back" the meaning of "bro" by putting it into common use with a harmless meaning. I would rather the word "brogrammer", with its baggage and any link it may or may not have with "bro", fade into obscurity.

Thanks, bro.

(Taking back "bro" since 2014)

Re: Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

#870

Post by lenkite »

blahedo wrote: post #99

Great idea; shame about the name. Here's the problem with using words like "bro" (however jokingly): the problem is not with what you [0] are thinking when you read the word "bro", but with what other people , especially newcomers, are thinking. The locker-room atmosphere that stuff like this creates is a huge barrier to entry for a lot of people, women especially, who infer that on top of all the technically difficu…

I am sorry. I know I might be heavily down-voted or banned but i just cannot resist. 'bro' is so friendly, egalitarian and non-discriminatory compared to:

unzip, strip, touch, finger, grep, mount, fsck, more, yes, fsck, fsck, umount

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