Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Swiss parliament lifts ban on new nuclear power plants

bluewin.ch

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

861–870 of 1001 posts

Re: Swiss parliament lifts ban on new nuclear power plants

#861

Post by Moldoteck »

adjejmxbdjdn wrote: post #189
Gud wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time this argument comes up, “it’s too slow and expensive “, I ask that person to please explain to me how my home country Sweden managed to build all those reactors in the 70s and 80s both fast and cheap? They’ve been amazing for us, despite the fact that some of them was recklessly shutdown prematurely by an ignorant political class.

1. Nuclear has a negative learning curve. It’s gotten more expensive with time. Part of the reason is increasing geopolitical risks (the U.S. just launched a war on Iran because of the possibility it may upgrade nuclear material to weapon capabilities), lost knowledge and expertise, and also the increasing relative cost of financing in the cost of energy projects. 2. Nuclear was built at a time when governments were…

weapons are unrelated to plants. Weapons are more about enrichment.

Re: Swiss parliament lifts ban on new nuclear power plants

#862

Post by Moldoteck »

ViewTrick1002 wrote: post #703
Gud wrote: post #667

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It took 5 years from construction start to grid connection for Oskarshamn R3, at the time the reactor with the world’s highest rated output. Since it began operating it has produced 350TWh. That nuclear power must take forever is a myth and is only due to dysfunctional politics. That “you get a permit in the winter and it’s done by summer” is a totally bogus claim. Perhaps for some tiny installation compared to a pow…

And now France target 2038 at the earliest for the first reactor in the EPR2 fleet. With a 11 cent per kWh CFD and interest free loans, summing to over 20 cents per kWh. It is easy to dream about what could have been half a century ago, but that doesn’t change reality today.

Yes, EPR2 is overcomplicated mess. But the subsidy is not that great either... considering many EU countries are subsidizing biomass today at 18ct/kwh...

Re: Swiss parliament lifts ban on new nuclear power plants

#863

Post by Moldoteck »

esarbe wrote: post #438
Gud wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time this argument comes up, “it’s too slow and expensive “, I ask that person to please explain to me how my home country Sweden managed to build all those reactors in the 70s and 80s both fast and cheap? They’ve been amazing for us, despite the fact that some of them was recklessly shutdown prematurely by an ignorant political class.

The same way that France did it; by building quite safe nuclear in series with massive government subsidies. A bit like China today. After the accidents showed that these designs where just not quite safe enough, redundancy in the safety systems were added. The thing is; as soon as those reactor designs got a bit more safe, they got much more expensive quite quickly. Just look at France's history of nuclear reactor d…

Gen2 units are expensive, but how do you explain ABWR as a FOAK costed far less than N-OAK gen 2 units?

It's not about safety but features and wishes to have. French reactors were cheap even at P4 level but the demand hasn't increased as planned and electrification was not great, so construction stopped. EPR is a complicated mess trying to cater to all regulations at once, especially the harsh german ones. That's why EPR2 has some stuff stripped apart

Re: Swiss parliament lifts ban on new nuclear power plants

#864

Post by Moldoteck »

WhyNotHugo wrote: post #562
jokteur wrote: post #32

This still has to pass with the people in a referendum. The discourse on nuclear is still quite chaotic in politics in Switzerland. All left leaning parties and greens parties are strongly against nuclear. I am not expecting informed and civil discussions about this topic. Switzerland has a summer/winter energy problem. We have lots of potential of producing energy in the spring and summer (when our dams are full fro…

> All left leaning parties and greens parties are strongly against nuclear. It's crazy that the left and green parties are against cheap, sustainable and clean energy for the masses.

I mean the situation was clear when Germany dropped nuclear before coal and gas... I can understand simping for gas, but having coal on the grid and dismantling nuclear in parallel is peak insanity

Re: Swiss parliament lifts ban on new nuclear power plants

#865

Post by Moldoteck »

ViewTrick1002 wrote: post #705
WhyNotHugo wrote: post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All left leaning parties and greens parties are strongly against nuclear. It's crazy that the left and green parties are against cheap, sustainable and clean energy for the masses.

Well. It is not cheap. Each new built large scale reactor needs tens of billions in subsidies. Money which could have multiple times larger effect, in a fraction of the time, if invested in renewables and storage.

But ren also require gas firming expansion(see germany). And Germany spends in ren subsidies about equivalent of 1 failed french nuclear project, each year... to have far worse emissions

Re: Swiss parliament lifts ban on new nuclear power plants

#866

Post by Moldoteck »

golem14 wrote: post #498
jokteur wrote: post #32

This still has to pass with the people in a referendum. The discourse on nuclear is still quite chaotic in politics in Switzerland. All left leaning parties and greens parties are strongly against nuclear. I am not expecting informed and civil discussions about this topic. Switzerland has a summer/winter energy problem. We have lots of potential of producing energy in the spring and summer (when our dams are full fro…

> We can't be buying France's nuclear energy all the time. Actually, why not ? I mean this as a serious question. Just like Oregon or New Mexico do not have problems getting (possibly nuclear) energy from California. You just have to believe in the concept of Europe hard enough.

France wants to build data centers so that EDF can make more profit instead of selling for cheap

Re: Swiss parliament lifts ban on new nuclear power plants

#867

Post by Moldoteck »

orwin wrote: post #43
jokteur wrote: post #32

This still has to pass with the people in a referendum. The discourse on nuclear is still quite chaotic in politics in Switzerland. All left leaning parties and greens parties are strongly against nuclear. I am not expecting informed and civil discussions about this topic. Switzerland has a summer/winter energy problem. We have lots of potential of producing energy in the spring and summer (when our dams are full fro…

I didn't think about seasonality of hydro power. You might want french design then, they are the most effective as starting/shutting down.

you can use others and get ALFC from framatome

Re: Swiss parliament lifts ban on new nuclear power plants

#868

Post by Moldoteck »

jules wrote: post #157
jokteur wrote: post #32

This still has to pass with the people in a referendum. The discourse on nuclear is still quite chaotic in politics in Switzerland. All left leaning parties and greens parties are strongly against nuclear. I am not expecting informed and civil discussions about this topic. Switzerland has a summer/winter energy problem. We have lots of potential of producing energy in the spring and summer (when our dams are full fro…

If there is any country that can safely build nuclear power plants, it is Switzerland.

it'll be built by others anyway

Re: Swiss parliament lifts ban on new nuclear power plants

#869

Post by Moldoteck »

frm88 wrote: post #699
idiotsecant wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its bizarre that nuclear power is a left/right thing. It's clean, safe, and immediately displaces carbon emissions elsewhere. It doesn't require decades of storage and transmission improvements that may or may not come. It just works. Today. One day nuclear will no longer be neasessary. Until that day comes it is essential . Anyone who disagrees is confusing wishful that being for physics.

It is also extremely expensive if you include the cost of decomission, waste management into the overall cost per KWh https://www.smartreability.com/nuclear-energy-price-per-kwh/

decomission cost and waste management costs are included and cheap. You should avoid informing yourself from some politically motivated websites and rely on real financial data like https://www.kkg.ch/de/uns/geschaefts-nachhaltigkeitsberichte... or check the Onkalo project

Re: Swiss parliament lifts ban on new nuclear power plants

#870

Post by Moldoteck »

awesome_dude wrote: post #385
jokteur wrote: post #32

This still has to pass with the people in a referendum. The discourse on nuclear is still quite chaotic in politics in Switzerland. All left leaning parties and greens parties are strongly against nuclear. I am not expecting informed and civil discussions about this topic. Switzerland has a summer/winter energy problem. We have lots of potential of producing energy in the spring and summer (when our dams are full fro…

1. Ukraine nuclear power plants are a massive liability - they make for easy targets for the Russians to obliterate the country - is that what you want for Switzerland? 2. The waste - nobody wants it - it's a hazard for tens of thousands of years - what's the plan for managing it? Yes energy generation (and independence) is important, no nuclear ain't it.

Ukraine still has power due to it's npp because most of ren infra got destroyed or captured because it was in the south. The plan for managing waste in Switzerland is terradura, similar to Onkalo in Finland, similar to what Germany does with toxic waste in herfa neurode
Post reply on HN