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Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

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Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#861

Post by mike_hearn »

eqvinox wrote: post #859
mike_hearn wrote: post #853

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no point submitting papers to academic journals given that the entire economics profession systematically lied about Brexit for years. Even Paul Krugman has publicly admitted, in writing in the New York Times, that the profession has been manipulating the public for ideological purposes: > "What we’re hearing overwhelmingly from economists is the claim that [voting leave] will also have severe short-run adver…

> You can find other papers written outside of academia that are much more honest: > https://iea.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/Perspectives_5... > Catherine McBride […] is a fellow of the Centre for Brexit Policy https://www.desmog.com/centre-brexit-policy/ The Centre for Brexit Policy (CBP) is a pro-Brexit, free-market thinktank Source rejected due to bias, please provide another one.

No.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#862

Post by sculper »

thin_carapace wrote: post #839
sculper wrote: post #769

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this were the HN of ten years ago, I might have expressed similar sentiments. Between the comments in this thread though, and the complete lack of moderator attention, I can only come to the conclusion that xenophobia is perfectly fine on HN - provided you couch it in the appropriate rhetoric and don't use any mean words.

i deal with uncomfortable questions regularly so obviously there will be a bias on my part for handling them. it seems to me like a lot of people believe that shutting down questions is the best idea here. can you please explain to me why it is xenophobic to ask questions? i dont really see the link and i dont see why shutting people down for asking questions is a good idea.

If you're truly curious:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_asking_questions

But judging by your other recent comments, I suspect that you are not asking this question in good faith.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#863

Post by l23k4 »

selfmodruntime wrote: post #833
l23k4 wrote: post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a deeply dishonest characterization of the FCAS.

How so? Neither Germany nor France wanted to meaningly influence Airbus nor Dassault Aviation in any way to solve internal bickering. There was a ton of political bargaining over subsystems and job guarantees. Of course, I can go off of what‘s publicly available.

Neither of them could, there was a very slim set of circumstances where their goals might have sufficiently lined up for this to work. They studied it, arrived at the conclusion that it wasn't going to happen.

To frame this as something that should happen is just taking an overly simplistic view on how fighter jet development works. Even if everything went perfectly, it's far from obvious that a Franco-German designed fighter could be better than a purely French one.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#864

Post by dh2022 »

joe_mamba wrote: post #855
dh2022 wrote: post #844

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The GP provided the examples of free help Romania got from EU. The reason the response is long is because you asked more questions. Here is something you did not bring up: nobody is forcing Romanians to buy EU goods. Romanians also buy a lot of Chinese and Korean goods. EU companies who make money off Romanian consumers compete with Chinese companies. The fact that there are very few things made in Romania is not due…

>The GP provided the examples of free help Romania got from EU Did we read the same comment? What help that was for free did he mention? Meaning help that Romania never paid back in kind by other ways. >The fact that there are very few things made in Romania Again you bring in more whataboutism offtopic shit that I or anyone else here never mentioned on this topic.

Yes, we read the same comment. He did provide a list of free help from EU and it was quite impressive.

My comment about very few things being made in Romania was a clarification re: EU neo-colonialism.

I can’t tell if you are sincere or a shill. But maybe that is a sign you are a master shill.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#865

Post by amunozo »

mike_hearn wrote: post #731
amunozo wrote: post #727

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also a much smaller economy and Switzerland, unlike the UK, is landlocked and surrounded by EU countries. More than half of its exports go to the EU. Switzerland needs the EU more than the EU needs Switzerland.

About half of UK trade is with the EU too and leaving made no difference. As for "surrounded by EU countries", unless you're jumping in the same boat as joxdasba and claiming France, Germany, Italy and Austria will all simultaneously attempt to starve Switzerland into submission, that just doesn't matter much.

I simply think that it's self-destructive to block end all bilateral agreements that are dependent on the free movement of people in order to put a cap on population/immigration, and especially that not knowing whether or when would it be applied would create uncertainty to a country whose best strength is certainty and stability.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#866

Post by logancbrown »

foldr wrote: post #856
logancbrown wrote: post #808

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the solution is to import uneducated and non-certified individuals from other countries at lower pay and hope you can pay them less and teach them? As if that is any easier? Sounds like the only reason is so health conglomerates can provide lower pay.

No, you can import educated and certified healthcare workers, as many European countries, including Switzerland, have been doing for a long time. It’s easier and cheaper, which is why everyone’s doing it.

.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#867

Post by inigyou »

logancbrown wrote: post #866
foldr wrote: post #856

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you can import educated and certified healthcare workers, as many European countries, including Switzerland, have been doing for a long time. It’s easier and cheaper, which is why everyone’s doing it.

.

Cuba has a reputation for producing highly skilled doctors, and they're not allowed to move to the US.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#868

Post by ericmay »

tpm wrote: post #854
ericmay wrote: post #788

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But also note that you are the only one against Spain creating a path for a group of people that live there to gain legal status. Nah I have an issue with it too, conceptually. You're basically rewarding bad actors for breaking rules and laws which is unfair to those who were and are trying to immigrate legally. At a minimum. Immigration isn't a moral good, it's just a switch we can flip on or off. Too few people?…

I'm probably missing something but your last sentence doesn't seem to agree with the rest of the post. If it's just paperwork then surely nothing bad happens not following it (mostly because it's just not possible to immigrate lawfully to most countries in this age). Note that I'm not defending unlawful immigrants; but once you spend a large amount of life in a country and you did nothing bad I don't see any issue wi…

> If it's just paperwork then surely nothing bad happens not following it

Well not filling out the paperwork means you'd be in the country without authorization which you know just subjects you to being deported or fined or to face other penalties depending on the laws and regulations of that country. So to your point, nothing really "bad" per-se happens by not following it. You just might be deported or fined and then you have to just accept that reality.

> Note that I'm not defending unlawful immigrants; but once you spend a large amount of life in a country and you did nothing bad I don't see any issue with said country allowing you to stay.

Sure, but conversely if that country decides you're not allowed to stay there's nothing wrong with that. Just being in a country for a long time doesn't retroactively grant you citizenship or anything. Though some countries may from time to time decide that it does, which I find unfortunate especially for those who are pursuing the proper methods. We shouldn't encourage breaking of rules or laws in our societies as a default.

> Of course having a safe legal path to residency

Well in the US at least we do have a safe and legal path to residency. Most other countries around the world are far, far more strict on these requirements.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#869

Post by Uhhrrr »

eqvinox wrote: post #859
mike_hearn wrote: post #853

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no point submitting papers to academic journals given that the entire economics profession systematically lied about Brexit for years. Even Paul Krugman has publicly admitted, in writing in the New York Times, that the profession has been manipulating the public for ideological purposes: > "What we’re hearing overwhelmingly from economists is the claim that [voting leave] will also have severe short-run adver…

> You can find other papers written outside of academia that are much more honest: > https://iea.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/Perspectives_5... > Catherine McBride […] is a fellow of the Centre for Brexit Policy https://www.desmog.com/centre-brexit-policy/ The Centre for Brexit Policy (CBP) is a pro-Brexit, free-market thinktank Source rejected due to bias, please provide another one.

Did you read the paper? Are there assumptions with which you disagree?

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#870

Post by mike_hearn »

amunozo wrote: post #841
like_any_other wrote: post #826

Earlier quoted context omitted.

European countries have traded with each other long before EU free movement. In fact, most countries today, EU or not, manage to trade just fine despite strict borders.

For sure, but going back to this after such a close integration is much harder than the previous situation. Moreover, the uncertainty of when or if these measure will be applied would damage the predictability and stability of Switzerland, which are their best assets.

The UK went with the "hardest" exit possible in law, in which all integration was unwound, but trade levels continued on their pre-referendum trajectory. So it's not that hard, apparently.
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