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The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

cnn.com

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Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#861

Post by consumer451 »

Tough news day for anyone who has a difficult time holding contradictory ideas in their mind. Pretty sure that includes myself.

On the one hand, Trump is awful for the USA, and the world.

On the other hand, there is a possibility that the freedom-wanting citizens of Iran finally have a slight chance of achieving their goal.

The chance of something truly positive happening seems low. However, as someone who has, for years, watched what happens in Iran via the lens of https://old.reddit.com/r/newiran, I am allowing myself the slightest amount of hope. Iranian people deserve it.

Of course, there is a large chance of this blowing up into something really bad for everyone.

edit: This Ukrainian is currently live streaming with OSINT, and his takes align with many of my actual realist thoughts:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUdeA0zukq4

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#862

Post by HerbManic »

Arun2009 wrote: post #426

I am just befuddled by how much of this violence is directly motivated by religious concerns, both on the side of Iran and on the side of Israel and USA. I have been reading on the topic of shunyata or emptiness in Mahayana Buddhism, and have been uncomfortably observing just how much of the artifacts we take to be real and substantial in the world are just "made up". They don't have an inherent reality of their own…

When it comes to battles of religion, Alan watts said it best.

"Since opposed principles, or ideologies, are irreconcilable, wars fought over principle will be wars of mutual annihilation. But wars fought for simple greed will be far less destructive, because the aggressor will be careful not to destroy what he is fighting to capture. Reasonable–that is, human–men will always be capable of compromise, but men who have dehumanized themselves by becoming the blind worshipers of an idea or an ideal are fanatics whose devotion to abstractions makes them the enemies of life."

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#864

Post by petre »

throwthrowuknow wrote: post #495
papaver-somnamb wrote: post #328

I recall someone (name escapes me at the moment) defining WW3 as ignition in 5 flashpoints between belligerent groupings: - Eastern Africa esp. Sudan, which we all nearly universally ignore - Israel Iran - Russia and a neighbor which we know today is Ukraine - Pakistan Afghanistan India - China Taiwan Plus Plus Attributes that distinguish WW3 from previous world wars were IIRC: Contained conflagration, short targeted…

Check your thinking. Korea currently has a DMZ dividing it from a war that never really ended and was fought to a stalemate. Their nuclear program didn’t result in military action because they currently have a gun to the head of every South Korean citizen and the backing of a large nuclear neighbour. Those are circumstances you can’t easily recreate elsewhere.

The DPRK is a nuclear armed buffer state and shall remain so for the forseeable future.

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#865

Post by tryauuum »

underdeserver wrote: post #585

I am saddened by all of these comments. Will not one of you try to steelman this decision? Or do you truly, fully believe the entire US government and intelligence complex, supported by roughly 50% of your compatriots, are warmongering baboons?

If assume the goal of the US administration is to really limit the weapons of mass destruction

then why the previous peacefull attempts were thrown out? I remember Iran agreed to limit the production or ivite the people to watch their actions, the US sanctions were even lifted in 2015. But then later reiplemented by the US for some reason.

unrelated to all of this, I don't understand what's the problem is with a country developing nuclear weapons. US can nuke Iran with ICBMs anyway if they try to use them?

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#866

Post by nailer »

jmward01 wrote: post #710

Ok. So we have just taken out all of Israel's foes with force. They are safe now right? We can stop supporting them militarily in every way now right? They no longer need any weapons, intelligence support, defense support, etc, right? If this is the right path to their long term safety then this must be true.

Iranian regime was the entire middle east’s foe, including Irans. Speak to your local Persian.

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#867

Post by nailer »

coffinbirth wrote: post #494

> Iranian media now report 40 killed and 48 students injured following the strike on a girls’ elementary school in Minab, as rescue and recovery efforts continue. Congrats America!

Iran regime launched a missile during their last ditch attack on every country in the middle east and it fell on a school.

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#869

Post by Rapzid »

shevy-java wrote: post #357
papaver-somnamb wrote: post #328

I recall someone (name escapes me at the moment) defining WW3 as ignition in 5 flashpoints between belligerent groupings: - Eastern Africa esp. Sudan, which we all nearly universally ignore - Israel Iran - Russia and a neighbor which we know today is Ukraine - Pakistan Afghanistan India - China Taiwan Plus Plus Attributes that distinguish WW3 from previous world wars were IIRC: Contained conflagration, short targeted…

First, I don't think this leads to WW3 although I would agree with you that there is a general global tendency towards escalation. Still, I think we can not call this WW3 and I am not 100% certain this is a build-up to WW3 either. As for North Korea: I think the situation is not solely about North Korea itself but China. China is kind of acting as protective proxy here. I don't see North Korea as primary problem to t…

China won't invade Taiwan because it would destroy their economy and thus their country. Would wreck the entire world economy and turn every country against them.

It's nice nationalistic rhetoric, but there is literally no upside for them.

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#870

Post by petre »

rayiner wrote: post #809
papaver-somnamb wrote: post #328

I recall someone (name escapes me at the moment) defining WW3 as ignition in 5 flashpoints between belligerent groupings: - Eastern Africa esp. Sudan, which we all nearly universally ignore - Israel Iran - Russia and a neighbor which we know today is Ukraine - Pakistan Afghanistan India - China Taiwan Plus Plus Attributes that distinguish WW3 from previous world wars were IIRC: Contained conflagration, short targeted…

What's missing here is the complex network of alliances that led to WWI. The Iranian regime has alienated virtually everyone, including many of its Muslim neighbors. Nor is the regime part of some overarching international movement, like the communist countries were. Who is going to lift a finger to help Iran? I'm not supportive of these strikes. Iranians created this government, and if they want to topple it they'll…

> I'm not supportive of these strikes. Iranians created this government, and if they want to topple it they'll have to be the ones to do it, without foreign intervention.

Well, foreign intervention kind of worked in Syria, Libya and Iraq after a few backstops, didn't it? All three countries reduced to rubble and virtually eliminated as threats to the US and Israel. Iran is next on the list, now that they're close to obtaing nukes. Let's not kid ourselves, they're not doing it for the Iranians, the're doing it for themselves. Regime change on their own terms, or if that isn't possible, yet another civil war.

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