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Data centers in space makes no sense

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Re: Data centers in space makes no sense

#861

Post by iamleppert »

AlexandrB wrote: post #839
SilverBirch wrote: post #621

I'm sorry I really don't understand this. I have a computer. I put it in a warehouse. You have a computer, you shoot it into space. What problem have you solved? Is this all an effort to utilize more efficient solar panels? Are solar panels really the limiting factor for data centres?

I think some people like this because it pushes libertarian "no need for environmental or regulatory review" buttons. There's a kernel of a valid argument there, but it seems overstated given that companies seem to have little trouble getting approval for big datacenter buildouts here on earth. There's also the coolness factor, I guess. But why does no one talk about launching RackSpace servers into space? I think th…

Not to mention the fact that you trade one source of pollution for another. You think giant rockets to lift tons of equipment into space is good for the environment?

Re: Data centers in space makes no sense

#862

Post by idontwantthis »

recursive wrote: post #187
idontwantthis wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One man able to put a data center worth of mass in orbit is one man able to crash a datacenter worth of mass into Earth anywhere he wants.

Not a given. Re enter the atmosphere. Sure. Avoid vaporization? Much harder problem.

100 tons of steel will not vaporize before it hits the ground

Re: Data centers in space makes no sense

#863

Post by devin »

As long as we're pointing out things that don't make sense: A long time ago in the United States we decided to run electricity _everywhere_, even farmhouses in the middle of nowhere. The solution to broadband in the United States is somehow, inexplicably "Let's use satellites" rather than increase tower coverage or run hard lines. It is a _terrible_ solution to this problem based on the cost alone.

Re: Data centers in space makes no sense

#864

Post by torginus »

osigurdson wrote: post #849
torginus wrote: post #818

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rumor I heard is that Musk's big issue with SpaceX was that he was only able to employ US citizens with a security clearance, as per the limitations of a rocket company, which he has rallied against multiple times. One of the motivations behind this whole thing could be that he could make a way for foreign talent to work on space projects without the necessary government signoff.

Would that really be that much of an unlock?

Yes. I don't have an estimate right off the bat, but if you considered all the people employed at top tech companies, what percentage do you think are US nationals eligible for a security clearance?

I'd say less than a third.

Re: Data centers in space makes no sense

#865

Post by Eggpants »

Back when I worked at AWS, I wrote a one page “press release” about this concept where the value add was the weight/power reduction of customer sats that could offload on board processing to the “Cloud above the Clouds”. There is a bottleneck with the down/uplink ground stations to do the on the ground processing.

The biggest problem folks had was even with equipment with 99.9% reliability something breaks every day due the huge raw number of devices involved. And most network equipment is not any where close to being radiation hardened.

I had some fun with it with Bezo’s fist bumping folks because SpaceX was cleaning BlueOrigin clock.

I talked to one of their lawyers and didn’t hear anything afterwards. I left AWS and a couple of years later Amazon announced AWS ground station. I wonder how much my paper contributed to green lighting that project.

Re: Data centers in space makes no sense

#866

Post by notaustinpowers »

beloch wrote: post #115

I would not assume cooling has been worked out. Space is a vacuum. i.e. The lack-of-a-thing that makes a thermos great at keeping your drink hot. A satellite is, if nothing else, a fantastic thermos. A data center in space would necessarily rely completely on cooling by radiation, unlike a terrestrial data center that can make use of convection and conduction. You can't just pipe heat out into the atmosphere or build…

It links his middling AI company and his failing social media company with the only company that can send the United States to space.

X failing and can't pay its debts? Welp, better give him a government bailout otherwise no more rockets for you!

Re: Data centers in space makes no sense

#867

Post by catoc »

beloch wrote: post #115

I would not assume cooling has been worked out. Space is a vacuum. i.e. The lack-of-a-thing that makes a thermos great at keeping your drink hot. A satellite is, if nothing else, a fantastic thermos. A data center in space would necessarily rely completely on cooling by radiation, unlike a terrestrial data center that can make use of convection and conduction. You can't just pipe heat out into the atmosphere or build…

Exactly - satellites need to be cooled to prevent overheating that wouldn’t happen on earth.

(Space doesn’t help in cooling GPUs in a satellite - space makes cooling worse)

Re: Data centers in space makes no sense

#868

Post by cryptonector »

Data centers in space make no sense because cooling things in space is insanely hard!

Yeah, space is cold, but also you don't have access to large thermal masses with which to exchange heat, so the fact that space is cold does not help much.

In space the only option for cooling is large radiators. If you had a data center in space you'd need enormous radiators -- much larger than the data center itself.

(On Earth we can exchange heat with the environment, and the environment includes convection and the water cycle and ultimately can expel excess heat via high altitude condensation of water vapor where most of the heat released escapes to space. As well clouds can both block insolation as well as keep heat below trapped, but altogether between high altitude condensation and blocking insolation this is the mechanism by which Earth keeps its temperature as a random walk around the average that we enjoy.)

Re: Data centers in space makes no sense

#869

Post by Starman_Jones »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #617
Starman_Jones wrote: post #3

Very confused by this plan. Data centers on Earth are struggling with how to get rid of waste heat. It's really, really hard to get rid of waste heat in space. That seems to be about the worst possible place to put a data center.

You are confusing engineering challenges with show stoppers. Cooling in space is a well studied problem with a few possible solutions. They all boil down to needing a lot of mass to radiate heat out to the universe and ways to conduct heat. We've been doing that at small scale for decades. SpaceX is already operating a fleet of many thousands of satellites that they built and engineered. They'd be well familiar with…

You make some good points, but when there are cheaper alternatives, engineering problems ARE showstoppers, and for good reason! If Musk announced that he wanted to build a datacenter inside an active volcano, my response would be pretty much the same - "Why?"

Re: Data centers in space makes no sense

#870

Post by fsckboy »

beloch wrote: post #115

I would not assume cooling has been worked out. Space is a vacuum. i.e. The lack-of-a-thing that makes a thermos great at keeping your drink hot. A satellite is, if nothing else, a fantastic thermos. A data center in space would necessarily rely completely on cooling by radiation, unlike a terrestrial data center that can make use of convection and conduction. You can't just pipe heat out into the atmosphere or build…

>i.e. The lack-of-a-thing that makes a thermos great at keeping your drink hot

e.g. the lack-of-a-thing that makes a thermos great at keeping your drink cold too

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