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X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

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Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#861

Post by swiftcoder »

mothballed wrote: post #803
monsieurbanana wrote: post #794

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what you're getting at, physical investigation is the common procedure. You need a reason _not_ to do it, and since "it's all digital" is not a good reason we go back to doing the usual thing.

It's a show of force. "Look we have big strong men with le guns and the neat jack boots, we can send 12 of them in for every one of you." Whether it is actually needed for evidence is immaterial to that.

It can be both things at once. It obviously sends a message, but hey, maybe you get lucky, and someone left a memo in the bin by the printer that blows the case wide open.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#862

Post by kmeisthax »

techblueberry wrote: post #27

I'm not saying I'm entirely against this, but just out of curiosity, what do they hope to find in a raid of the french offices, a folder labeled "Grok's CSAM Plan"?

Have you taken a look at the Epstein files lately? Rich people write out basically all of their crimes in triplicate because they don't fear the law.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#863

Post by hnfong »

PaulRobinson wrote: post #589
muyuu wrote: post #532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly it sounds to me like a "show me the man and I'll show you the crime" kind of operation. France and the UK, and judging by yesterday's speech by the PM of Spain maybe the whole EU might be looking to do what China and Russia did earlier on and start cracking down on foreign social media by making it impossible to operate without total alignment with their vision and not just their (new) rules. Together with a…

It's worth pointing out that in France and the UK, the authorities involved are arms length independent of the political bodies - it's not like the US where if you give the President good vibes you can become head of the FBI, and all you have to do in return is whatever he says. There are statutory instruments (in France, constitutional clauses), that determine the independence of these authorities. They are tasked -…

There's a dissonance between the claim that it's "independent of the political bodies" and "held to account by respective legislative bodies". Are the legislative bodies not political? In the sense of aren't they elected through a political process?

This is kind of a genuine question from me since I have no idea how these authorities are set up in France or the UK...

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#864

Post by intended »

ReptileMan wrote: post #655
mnewme wrote: post #519

Good one. No platform ever should allow CSAM content. And the fact that they didn’t even care and haven’t want to spend money for implementing guardrails or moderation is deeply concerning. This has imho nothing to do with model censorship, but everything with allowing that kind of content on a platform

I disagree. Prosecute people that use the tools, not the tool makers if AI generated content is breaking the law. A provider should have no responsibility how the tools are used. It is on users. This is a can of worms that should stay closed, because we all lose freedoms just because of couple of bad actors. AI and tool main job is to obey. We are hurling at "I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that" future with b…

If you had argued that it’s impossible to track what is made on local models, and we can no longer maintain hashes of known CP, it would have been a fair statement of current reality.

——-

You’ve said that whatever is behind door number 1 is unacceptable.

Behind door number 2, “holding tool users responsible”, is tracking every item generated via AI, and being able to hold those users responsible.

If you don’t like door number 2, we have door number 3 - which is letting things be.

For any member of society, opening door 3 is straight out because the status quo is worse than reality before AI.

If you reject door 1 though, you are left with tech monitoring. Which will be challenged because of its invasive nature.

Holding Platforms responsible is about the only option that works, at least until platforms tell people they can’t do it.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#865

Post by master-lincoln »

thrance wrote: post #850
master-lincoln wrote: post #749

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A generated picture of a family member in a bikini is an issue? I don't see it...

Generated by a stranger, then posted online on X for the whole world to see. Are you really OK with that, even if the subject was your 10 years old daughter?

We have privacy laws forbidding anyone to share most pictures of people without their consent independent of what they are wearing on that picture. This is not new. That stranger should be investigated. I don't see why it needs to be CSAM for us to be upset about it.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#866

Post by mekdoonggi »

isodev wrote: post #448

Good and honestly it’s high time. There used to be a time when we could give corps the benefit of the doubt but that time is clearly over. Beyond the CSAM, X is a cesspool of misinformation and generally the worst examples of humanity.

I don't know how we even allowed these companies to not be responsible for everything on their platform.

The entirety of the social media platform is based on the idea that the company isn't responsible for what the users post, which is just wrong. If you own a magazine, you should be held responsible for everything published.

You shouldn't be allowed to profit from publishing anything, then hide behind "the users did it, not us".

And in this case, Elon should be held responsible for every single image of CSAM published on X. Same with Zuck. Same with Truth Social, whatever you want.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#867

Post by mekdoonggi »

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #241
DaSHacka wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would apply to any and all social media though

Sounds awesome, when do we start?

Could not possibly agree more. When did we accept, "Users are doing the scamming, not the company" as an excuse? If it's your platform, you should be held responsible for all the illegal actions that it enabled.

If a magazine published a page with a scam, they're responsible. Same should apply to social media.

I literally don't care if it puts them out of business because the moderation would be too severe.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#868

Post by goodolddays9090 »

ryandrake wrote: post #857
tw85 wrote: post #831

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems people have a rather short memory when it comes to twitter. When it was still run by Jack Dorsey, CP was abundant on twitter and there was little effort to tamp down on it. After Musk bought the platform, he and Dorsey had a public argument in which Dorsey denied the scale of the problem or that old twitter was aware of it and had shown indifference. But Musk actually did take tangible steps to clean it up a…

Didn't Reddit have the same problem until they got negative publicity and were basically forced to clean it up? What is with these big tech companies and CP?

[dead]

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#869

Post by yibg »

mnewme wrote: post #519

Good one. No platform ever should allow CSAM content. And the fact that they didn’t even care and haven’t want to spend money for implementing guardrails or moderation is deeply concerning. This has imho nothing to do with model censorship, but everything with allowing that kind of content on a platform

My natural reaction here is like I think most others; that yes Grok / X bad, shouldn't be able to generate CSAM content / deepfakes.

But I am having trouble justifying in an consistent manner why Grok / X should be liable here instead of the user. I've seen a few arguments here that mostly comes down to:

1. It's Grok the LLM generating the content, not the user.

2. The distribution. That this isn't just on the user's computer but instead posted on X.

For 1. it seems to breakdown if we look more broadly at how LLMs are used. e.g. as a coding agent. We're basically starting to treat LLMs as a higher level framework now. We don't hold vendors of programming languages or frameworks responsible if someone uses them to create CSAM. Yes LLM generated the content, but the user still provided the instructions to do so.

For 2. if Grok instead generated the content for download would the liability go away? What if Grok generated the content to be downloaded only and then the user uploaded manually to X? If in this case Grok isn't liable then why does the automatic posting (from the user's instructions) make it different? If it is, then it's not about the distribution anymore.

There are some comparisons to photoshop, that if i created a deep fake with photoshop that I'm liable not Adobe. If photoshop had a "upload to X" button, and I created CSM using photoshop and hit the button to upload to X directly, is now Adobe now liable?

What am I missing?

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#870

Post by almosthere »

utopiah wrote: post #457

To people claiming a physical raid is pointless from the point of gathering data : - you are thinking about a company doing good things the right way. You are thinking about a company abiding by the law, storing data on its own server, having good practices, etc. The moment a company starts to do dubious stuff then good practices start to go out the window. People write email with cryptic analogies, people start dele…

At some point in the near future I see a day where our work laptops are nothing more than a full screen streaming video to a different computer that is housed in a country that has no data extradition treaties and is business friendly.

Because that country and the businesses that support that are going to get RICH from such a service.

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