Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

404media.co

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

861–870 of 977 posts

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#861

Post by johnnyanmac »

GuinansEyebrows wrote: post #169
pixl97 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The particular problem here is the vast majority of people that are writing this software 1. Don't care, blood is great. 2. Think they are the good guys. 3. Are more worried about their next paycheck and having bad things happen to them related to not paying rent.

> 3. Are more worried about their next paycheck and having bad things happen to them related to not paying rent. i feel like a broken record: anyone with a resume good enough for Palantir would have no problem finding work for another company/public sector employer. but they stay.

In this job market, nothing is guaranteed. I'm struggling and I talked to devs with double my experience who had networks freeze up. Strange times.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#862

Post by johnnyanmac »

no-dr-onboard wrote: post #200
libraryatnight wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume if someone works for Palantir they're an unabashed Yarvinist and fine with it.

That's a pretty broad generalization, but OK I'll bite. - I think Yarvin has a lot of good points. No one should be ashamed to admit the truth of a matter. I can't stand his voice, I think he has annoying mannerisms, but nonetheless the man has a point and I'm not ashamed (especially by unknown and strange online personas) to say so. - Palantir is objectively a profitable job. I've learned a lot here and the people I…

>No one should be ashamed to admit the truth of a matter.

Yet supports a regime that is censoring colleges, getting workers fired over their political views, pressuring and shutting down press, and more.

The point clearly only matters for truths they like.

>Palantir is objectively a profitable job

And ICE offering 50k signing bonuses. How much is your soul worth?

>I don't think I have "blood on my hands" and rather instead think that people who use that tactic are resorting to strange emotional manipulation in place of a salient argument.

Dismissing ethics as a salient argument is exactly why pathos is effective. If you were truly without shame you wouldn't be affected by the argument. Deflecting shows shame. I've meet a few sociopaths and this isn't how they respond.

>Most importantly, this is the exact type of behavior that is furthering political polarization and discouraging actual discourse.

Citizens are being killed on the street as we speak by their government. This is not a time to say "but why can't we just get along". There is literal blood on their hands. Maybe yours, I don't know.

And I'm beyond tired of this because this was warned from day one. But it was dismissed by overly reactionary and dramatic (I can pull up many of the flagged threads here). It's tiring because this wasn't some freak accident we correct, but a year of escalation that was designed by the administration.

If you're fine with that to self preserve your lifestyle, then I hope you are a sociopath. Otherwise, that does indeed eat at your soul, deservedly.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#863

Post by johnnyanmac »

Amezarak wrote: post #518
mlsu wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because these systems are not only used on illegal immigrants. To give you a very clear example: a US citizen was murdered without any due process a few days ago by ICE. Because surveilling people -- PEOPLE , not citizens -- without probable cause is a violation of the US constitution? It is a bad thing because it leads to innocent people being brutalized, it's a violation of the constitution, it's very clearly the p…

“Due process” is not a magic incantation. This is emotional, moralizing rhetoric that doesn’t persuade anyone. People who insert themselves into operations involving the state’s actors who have a monopoly on violence are risking their lives and legal jurisprudence has upheld the state’s actions to stop them by whatever means necessary in similar cases many, many times. And it’s obvious things could not operate in any…

>This is emotional, moralizing rhetoric that doesn’t persuade anyone.

If the constitution is now just "emotional rhetoric", then we are lost. No point showing you the article breaking down every bit of conduct in this situation if you dont care aboht law.

This will be a civil war with the only winner being China. Good luck.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#864

Post by johnnyanmac »

standardly wrote: post #637
Amezarak wrote: post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Due process” is not a magic incantation. This is emotional, moralizing rhetoric that doesn’t persuade anyone. People who insert themselves into operations involving the state’s actors who have a monopoly on violence are risking their lives and legal jurisprudence has upheld the state’s actions to stop them by whatever means necessary in similar cases many, many times. And it’s obvious things could not operate in any…

He answered your question perfectly now you're rolling your eyes at the concept of due process, which has little to do with the original conversation (why is Palantir bad?) Do you just like being contrarian?

That person isjustifying using deadly force on someone who was driving away, by the command of said shooter. This is the exact kind of person who is the reason this regime isn't unilaterally overturned.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#865

Post by johnnyanmac »

lokar wrote: post #74
mingus88 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And in 2016 he was a Clinton supporter and a self described progressive. Vance was also a never trumper by his own admission. It’s quite clear to me that these elites are just grabbing power by any means necessary. It won’t end after Trump. He’s just providing the cover in the current moment.

When the transition to authoritarianism starts elites have a choice to make. History show most will choose authoritarianism.

They will take the country down in death throes if there's a progressive movement, but will happily kiss the shoes of a dictator in an authoritarian regime.

I do hope I live to see the day we properly oust this mentality of "a single person deserves a billion dollars". But that's a big "if"

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#866

Post by lmz »

rootusrootus wrote: post #840
lmz wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of the world would not tolerate the amount of illegals that the US has within its borders.

You are getting downvoted, but this is a fair point. The only other country with a higher estimate for illegal immigrant population is Russia. The next closest Western European country is France, with barely over half the rate of the US. [0] [0] https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/percentag...

In the poorer parts of the world, people absolutely detest illegal immigrants (or basically most working migrants as well) because they are taking jobs from the locals. They hate refugees because there's not enough resources to go around to use in feeding and housing them.

Welcoming people in because "no-one wants to do those jobs" is very much a luxury belief of the well off.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#867

Post by mwarkentin »

rootusrootus wrote: post #816
jenadine wrote: post #790

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but we still have some real elections coming up, Unless the president declares a permanent temporary state of emergency for whatever reason that would prevent such elections.

There is no precedent for this. The executive lacks the authority. It would require Congress to enact a law, and this is easier said than done. The states run elections, and while the feds have some input on how elections for federal office are conducted, it is quite limited. The vast majority of the population is relying on these protections holding.

Ah yes, all of the precedents and lawful authority that this president cares so much about adhering to.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#868

Post by datsci_est_2015 »

simianparrot wrote: post #775
jr-throw wrote: post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The perspective that is constantly missing from these one-sided ICE threads on HN and Reddit (but often exposed in videos after the fact): What are the civilians/protesters actually doing in these situations? This kind of "I'm a sovereign citizen, you can't touch me" behavior used to be rightfully belittled by the same crowd only a few years ago.

It’s insane. I watch the actual source videos from as many angles as I can find, and I’ve not once seen this false narrative of unreasonable retribution by LEO’s. Not once when I find the full context.

> I’ve not once seen this false narrative of unreasonable retribution

Idk man that’s pretty crazy. Sounds kind of like you have no concerns about living in an authoritarian hellhole where state police have absolute authority and are only accountable to the highest executive power. Maybe read some books about how that usually ends up for most people. We’re out here ringing alarm bells so more books don’t have to be written.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#869

Post by Izkata »

chaps wrote: post #805
Izkata wrote: post #785

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can do better, friend. So can you. Your past experience was terrible, but that's no reason to ignore or misrepresent what others are saying. What GP and I are both seeing in the Renee video is assault with a deadly weapon on a law enforcement officer. Lethal force is a valid response. That doesn't mean she deserves it, but that she was doing something stupid without realizing just how stupid it was. Most of the…

> That doesn't mean she deserves it, but that she was doing something stupid without realizing just how stupid it was Am I right to say that your argument can be summarized as, "She didn't deserve it, but her actions were deserving of it"? Or maybe "merited"? I'm genuinely confused by what you mean by " deserves ". (just to be explicit, the disagreement we have here is very much about what the word "deserves" means r…

"Deserved" is a stronger word than "earned" or "merited", there's a sense of satisfaction or entitlement (though negative) behind that word. Something like, to say that she deserved death means saying she should have died for what she did, that it was the right outcome. That's not what we're saying. It's more like, the actions the officer took weren't in the wrong despite the bad outcome. She made really bad choices, and she was the one at fault, but there were better possible outcomes given the exact same series of events and she didn't deserve to die. But it's not a surprising outcome either.

Another quick aside since I suspect this is a second point of confusion, "lethal force" does not mean "with the intent to kill", it means "force that is likely to cause severe injury or death".

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#870

Post by rgun »

lokar wrote: post #74
mingus88 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And in 2016 he was a Clinton supporter and a self described progressive. Vance was also a never trumper by his own admission. It’s quite clear to me that these elites are just grabbing power by any means necessary. It won’t end after Trump. He’s just providing the cover in the current moment.

When the transition to authoritarianism starts elites have a choice to make. History show most will choose authoritarianism.

It will just be a matter of time when the "authority" turns its back on the elites.
Post reply on HN