Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

electrek.co

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

861–870 of 1001 posts

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#861

Post by NoGravitas »

tyre wrote: post #452
doublesocket wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never understood why the yanks don't like vans? Pickups are much less popular here in the UK, many more people use vans. A crew cab van with removable seats is infinitely more flexible than a pickup, other than long stuff which you chuck on a roof rack.

Vans don't project manliness. Most people don't use pickup trucks for pickup truck things. They'd be fine with a station wagon, but they have self-confidence issues.

This is the main thing. The US is very, very weird in terms of how it genders every possible lifestyle choice, and polices those gender norms. The rise of SUVs in the US was partly driven by things like inconsistent emissions standards, but also by the need to make a more "masculine" alternative to the minivan or station wagon.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#862

Post by jlarocco »

wolrah wrote: post #282
jlarocco wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, both the Lightning and the Cybertruck are just bad trucks. Some review of the Lightning I read said it has less than a 100 mile range towing a full load. It's a fashion statement, not a work vehicle.

> Some review of the Lightning I read said it has less than a 100 mile range towing a full load. Because of course towing long distances is the only reason you'd ever want a truck. Obviously we can start by acknowledging that the vast majority of F-150s (and other half-ton pickup trucks) sold in the US these days are purchased by people who maybe haul a load of mulch or dirt once a year and otherwise use them as dail…

But a lot of the people who buy trucks for image want the image of somebody who's going out towing, carrying a bunch of stuff, and doing "truck things".

They don't fit the image if they drive an e-truck because e-trucks aren't great at those "truck things. At least that's my theory why the e-trucks aren't doing well, even if they should be.

No doubt a used Lightning is a great deal if you only need to carry stuff once in a while.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#864

Post by [deleted] »

CitrusFruits wrote: post #667
mcny wrote: post #639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never owned a truck or a new car and I might buy one if they can truly keep the slate under 20knincluding delivery and all taxes and fees.

IIRC the 20k number depended on the 7k federal rebate that recently expired, so it will probably be more like 27k

[deleted]

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#865

Post by coredog64 »

doublesocket wrote: post #427
m463 wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was looking for the same thing and a friend gave me some advice. Get an SUV with a trailer hitch. worked out great. Maybe better than a pickup. For example - taking mountain bikes somewhere to ride - you can put them in the back, go ride, and leave them there while you go eat without someone stealing them. You can even load them the night before. dirty stuff can use a trailer (I've never needed one) and suv carries…

Never understood why the yanks don't like vans? Pickups are much less popular here in the UK, many more people use vans. A crew cab van with removable seats is infinitely more flexible than a pickup, other than long stuff which you chuck on a roof rack.

The powertrain packaging for vans is much tighter than for trucks. Who amongst us remembers removing the interior to change sparkplugs 6 and 8 in a GMC Vandura?

Even if you're not going to do the knuckle-skinning work yourself, the packaging negatively influences book rates when you take it to a shop

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#866

Post by bombcar »

shusaku wrote: post #571
namlem wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making it look too much like a regular F-150 was a mistake. You need the vehicle to look distinctive enough for it to market itself.

I guess that’s kind of the defense of Musk on the cyber truck. If Ford can’t sell hem off their F150 platform, it means you need to make more of a splash. He just went too far…

I've seen an argument that the Prius was intentionally made "ugly/noticeable" because they knew the buyers would be interested in the technology AND want to be recognizable as such.

When hybrids are common, the styling reverted to more normal car-like.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#867

Post by pbmonster »

segfaultex wrote: post #829
pbmonster wrote: post #790

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> my bet is it's almost identical to the BEV version but with an engine where the big beautiful frunk is now Would be interesting how small and how cheap you can design a ~50kW genset to be (any smaller and you don't gain that highly coveted towing range). I don't think it's an easy task, you still need to integrate the crash compliant fuel tank, the emissions compliant exhaust system, water cooling for the engine, e…

If I had to bet; they'll put their 3.7L V6 in and run it on the miller cycle with a fixed drive to hit @130+kW or so. The changes for cooling, etc. will be substantial, but the problem space is already well-known by the team, so the time to market probably won't be as long as we think.

That's probably a quick way to do it, but considering that using a miller cycle means we're going to want the turbo version of the engine, that alone is going to cost like $4k on Fords end. Add a 100kW+ generator with the power electronics to charge while driving, fuel system, exhaust system and cooling system, and we're probably approaching $10k upcharge for the customer.

Gotta remove a whole lot of batteries from that car to make it cost competitive again. Realistically, with an engine this powerful, we can probably cut down to like 30kWh of total battery capacity, which gets us back to where we started financially. And 30 kWh is enough to drive 70 miles all electric, which should pretty much should cover most daily use for people who charge at home.

Now, the questions if we can do that cheaper with a much smaller engine. Ford has a 1 liter inline 3 in the Fiesta and Focus that makes half as much power. Should be enough...

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#868

Post by NoGravitas »

PunchyHamster wrote: post #777
kulahan wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brother, people are scraping by right now. Auto loan defaults are nearing all-time highs. Car loan lengths are longer than ever. The average age of a vehicle on the road is something like 14 years old now. I promise you with all my heart, those luxobarges are not being purchased because they’re practical in any way, shape, or form. It’s 110% virtue signaling. I don’t get the recent internet trend of trying to excuse…

> I promise you with all my heart, those luxobarges are not being purchased because they’re practical in any way, shape, or form. It’s 110% virtue signaling. not sure virtue signalling is best description here. I think "conspicuous consumption" is far better description of the process

Indeed, in a sense it might even be better referred to as "vice signalling".

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#869

Post by bombcar »

725686 wrote: post #609
namlem wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making it look too much like a regular F-150 was a mistake. You need the vehicle to look distinctive enough for it to market itself.

I would argue against that! If anything, I hated the firs hybrids that where distinctly different, and ugly.

There's an argument that they did that intentionally - some hated it, but more bought it because they wanted to be recognized as having bought a hybrid - hence the "Toyota Pius" nickname.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#870

Post by Aurornis »

alexjplant wrote: post #722
Aurornis wrote: post #711

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but a sprinter van is going to provide better actual utility for most trades Certain jobs in certain trades, not all of them > and a 80k f150 platinum Base F150 starts at half that. This is silly

> Base F150 starts at half that. This is silly No it isn't [1]. > There seems to be no limit these days to how lavishly equipped, not to mention expensive, full-size standard-duty pickup trucks have become at the upper reaches of their respective model lines. [...] They’re brash and uniquely American alternatives to fine-tuned European luxury SUVs. For those keeping score, Kelley Blue Book says the average full-size…

How dare those workers buy nice cars for themselves to drive every day! What were they thinking?
Post reply on HN