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Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

middleeasteye.net

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Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#861

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is such a thing as sitting-it-out. People didn’t necessarily vote for Trump. They just didn’t vote for Harris. And that is exactly what the voting record shows: votes for Democrats dropped significantly between 2020 and 2024.

"votes for Democrats dropped significantly between 2020 and 2024." For, or from? this is an important distinction to make.

Both.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#862

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People didn't flip to red so much as blue voters in swing states sitting on their hands and abstaining from voting. Now they're looking down the barrel of authoritarianism and they're still unwilling to vote unless Gaza is a fully solved problem. The cruel irony is that this behavior is worsening the situation in Gaza.

And that was always known to have been a counter-productive protest. There's nothing ironic about this. They were told. They didn't care. It was unambiguously clear that no matter how bad you felt Obama/Biden/Harris were on Israel, Trump was/would be worse. If every single human life is worth saving (and it is), it's indisputable that Trump is worse for Gaza than Harris would have been. It was the ultimate Trolley Pr…

Yup. What's happening is horrible, but that doesn't mean there are better options. History has a very clear lesson: When Israel is harsh fewer Israelis die. When Israel is nice more Israelis die. The lesson has been repeated many times. Multiple times Israel has permitted the world to cram appeasement down it's throat, every time has made it worse for Israel.

Want peace over there, make peace not bring problems for Israel. But so long as Iran keeps fanning the fires of war I see no way to accomplish that.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#863

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While you do have points that these UN bodies do seem to sleep more often than not, one should never, under any circumstance attempt to suggest that what's happening in Gaza aren't crimes against humanity. A friend of mine is in the Red Cross staff, they had more than 20 casualties since 2021 in Palestine. Their staff was literally shot at because they were doctors. It's sickening.

> under any circumstance attempt to suggest that what's happening in Gaza aren't crimes against humanity I mean I don't think anyone will argue it's good but "crimes against humanity" is certainly a massive exaggeration.

No it's not.

Even an increasing number of Israelis call this for what it is: ethnic cleansing and genocide.

https://www.btselem.org/publications/202507_our_genocide

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#864
post #771

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was me. I was browsing Hamas' Telegram account as they released the FPV videos that day. The two most disturbing scenes were the pantless body of a teenaged girl being burned amidst chanting of "Allahu Akbar", and militants scouring buildings for any person or pet they could kill and doing just that whenever they found someone. I learned a very uncomfortable—though valuable—lesson about humans that day.

Yeah, that never happened.

And why in the world do you think it didn't? I haven't seen the particular video he's referring to but I've seen enough that I do not find his claim unreasonable.

Remember that 47 minutes of video Israel was screening for reporters but did not release? They've gotten permission from some of the families and have released part of it. You definitely see people being killed on camera.

And the really important part isn't the video itself, but that it's stuff that Hams people chose to post on social media. Something to be cheered, not a horror.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#865

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider that the videos of Oct 7 had a similar effect on lots of decent people. The un is the same now as it was before October 7. In gueterres words "it didn't happen in a vacuum". The complete loss of credibility for the un also didn't happen in a vacuum. Even if their report is true it will fall on deaf ears thanks in no small part to their lack of any sort of objectivity when it comes to Israel.

That is interesting, why videos from Gaza has strong effects while Oct 7 don't. Or videos from Ukraine don't. Israel bombing a hospital in Gaza is genocide while russians bombing child hospital in Kyiv is ok. Unfortunately not all nations are equal and many suffers because of that.

Fundamentally, Gaza has a strong effect because so much effort is made to shove it in our faces as a way of attacking Israel.

Virtually no mention to the far worse horrors Iran is perpetrating elsewhere.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#867
post #572

It is incredibly interesting how the US (and Germany) have put so much into Israel and associated groups they really don't want it to fail (despite the Israeli gov doing their damnest to facilitate just that). In my understanding Israel, in the eyes of the US, is a convenient "wedge" in the Arab space that allows for easier power projection in the area, plus they have a healthy amount of zionists close to money and p…

The current US administration also derives a lot of its support from evangelical Christians, who have a belief that Israel must exist in order for Jesus to return to earth. Which I’m sure he’d be a fan of all the lying and killing that was done to make that happen…

Jesus doesn't need anyone's help or the existence of any country to return to Earth. He does whatever He wants, like it or not.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#868

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no murder of two million. There's at most, according to Hamas itself, 60,000 dead out of which 10,000 were hamas militants. This is a regular ugly war. If Israel wanted to kill two million, they could've done it already. It seemingly doesn't matter how accurate Israel tried to be, they call genocide either way.

It's incredibly difficult to kill two million people, the easiest -- if not the only practically possible way -- is with mass starvation. Here's an interview with a senior UNICEF worker: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsAo2j6aih0 You may want to distance yourself from a defense of israel. This is not what you think it is; within a year a very large percentage of gazans will be dead, a very significant majority of al…

> within a year a very large percentage of gazans will be dead, a very significant majority of all their children. They are starving now with water withheld.

I appreciate that you're making a prediction. We can check back in a year and see the population levels compared to today.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#869
post #572

It is incredibly interesting how the US (and Germany) have put so much into Israel and associated groups they really don't want it to fail (despite the Israeli gov doing their damnest to facilitate just that). In my understanding Israel, in the eyes of the US, is a convenient "wedge" in the Arab space that allows for easier power projection in the area, plus they have a healthy amount of zionists close to money and p…

1) Israel serves as a lightning rod. Much of the Islamist violence is directed at them rather than at the rest of the world. 2) Israel is a nuclear power. You think they'll let themselves be exterminated (and that's what their opponents want) without using their bombs?

There is a lot to unpack in this.

Your #1 is encoding an unexamined assumption that there is a fixed or at least somewhat inflexible amount of violence to be directed anywhere. It also ignores the lightning generation engine, so to speak, that is the settler colonialism causing unrest across the region.

On #2 - Rational people see that they are willing to do everything short of nuclear war when they feel like their century of history is being re-evaluated, and are worried about that (appropriately so). Also, it is an error to assert that nations can be exterminated. That is something evil that happens to people. As organizations of people, institutions and states can fail or be dissolved, but do not disappear permanently so long as people remain to re-form them. I think rational people can argue that the things that are being done in Palestine are unconscionable and that a state that is built to systematically support those acts needs to renew its principles and recommit itself to the idea of "never again".

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#870

I see a lot of comments here are about how other countries should react to this designation, rightfully so. I wonder also though, how Israel will react. Is this anything new for them?

1. Multiple Israeli human right groups have already been calling what's happening in Gaza a genocide.

2. The overwhelming majority of Israelis knows and does not care about Palestinian civilian suffering, they do not even try to hide it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMyyVaiY4V8

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