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Open models by OpenAI

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Re: Open models by OpenAI

#861

Post by nudgeOrnurture »

vonneumannstan wrote: post #802
cco wrote: post #357

The lede is being missed imo. gpt-oss:20b is a top ten model (on MMLU (right behind Gemini-2.5-Pro) and I just ran it locally on my Macbook Air M3 from last year. I've been experimenting with a lot of local models, both on my laptop and on my phone (Pixel 9 Pro), and I figured we'd be here in a year or two. But no, we're here today. A basically frontier model, running for the cost of electricity (free with a rounding…

>no lakes being drained When you imagine a lake being drained to cool a datacenter do you ever consider where the water used for cooling goes? Do you imagine it disappears?

not if the winds of fortune don't change;--but the weather, man, it's been getting less foreseeable than I was once used to

Re: Open models by OpenAI

#862

Post by nudgeOrnurture »

Oreb wrote: post #631
staplers wrote: post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worse, after attempting to delete all chats and disable memory, I noticed that some information still seemed to persist. Chatgpt was court ordered to save history logs. https://www.malwarebytes.com/blog/news/2025/06/openai-forced...

That only means that OpenAI have to keep logs of all conversations, not that ChatGPT will retain memories of all conversations.

you could explain that to ChatGPT and it would agree but then again, if you HAVE TO keep the logs ...

Re: Open models by OpenAI

#863

Post by 9rx »

FrustratedMonky wrote: post #825
9rx wrote: post #804

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You think the Democratic White House, manipulated Republicans into Voting for Trump. Yes, that is what he thinks. Did you not read the comment? It is, like, uh, right there... He also explained his reasoning: If Trump didn't win the party race, a more compelling option (the so-called "50-year-old youngster") would have instead, which he claims would have guaranteed a Republican win. In other words, what he is sayin…

"explained his reasoning" Well, I guess, if you are taking some pretty wild speculation as a reasoned explanation. There isn't much hope for you. Maybe it was because the Democrats new the Earth was about the be invaded by an Alien race , and they also knew Trump was actually a lizard person (native to Earth and thus on their joint side). And Trump would be able to defeat them, so using the secret mind control powers…

> if you are taking some pretty wild speculation as a reasoned explanation.

How the heck did you manage to conflate line of reasoning with claims being made?

> There isn't much hope for you.

And fall for the ad hominem fallacy.

> crazy arguments that somehow everything Trump does is the fault of the Democrats

While inventing some weird diatribe about crazy arguments claiming Democrats being at fault for what Trump does, bearing no resemblance to anything else in the discussion.

> They are crazy on the face of it.

As well as introducing some kind of nebulous legion of unidentified "crazy" straw men.

> that doesn't make sense

Couldn't have said it better myself.

> Maybe if people had to clarify their positions

Sad part is that asking for clarification on the position of that earlier comment would have been quite reasonable. There is potentially a lot we can learn from in the missing details. If only you had taken the two extra seconds to understand the comment before replying.

Re: Open models by OpenAI

#864

Post by jlaternman »

dragonwriter wrote: post #677
rafaelmn wrote: post #663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the knowledge cutoff for this thing so stale or is this just bad performance on recent data ?

The knowledge cutoff is before the 2024 election (which was, after all, just 9 months ago), June 2024 (I believe this is consistent with the current versions of GPT-4o and -4.1), after Biden had secured the nomination. It is very clear in that chat logs (which include reasoning traces) that the model knew that, knew what the last election it knew about was, and answered correctly based on its cut off initially. Under…

I like that term much better, confabulation. I’ve come to think of it as it relies on an inherent trust in the fact that whatever process it uses to produce a coherent response (which I don’t think the LLM can really analyze after the fact) is inherently a truth-making process, since it trusts inherently its training data and considers that the basis of all its responses. Something along those lines. We might do something similar at times as humans, it feels similar to how some people get trapped in lies and almost equate what they have said as true with having the quality of truth as a result of them having claimed it as true (pathological liars can demonstrate this kind of thinking).

Re: Open models by OpenAI

#865

Post by simonw »

lossolo wrote: post #854
simonw wrote: post #851

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the models are memorizing and regurgitating from their training data, how come every model I've tried this with produces entirely different code? Presumably this is because "the network only needs to interpolate between them". That's what I want it to do! I tried the space invaders thing on a 4GB Qwen model today and it managed to produce a grid of aliens that advanced one step... and then dropped off the page ent…

Transformer does not need to emit a byte for byte clone of a training example to benefit from having seen it. It can store a distributed representation of many near duplicate implementations and then sample a novel linear combination. That still short circuits algorithm design so the burden of discovering the game loop, collision logic, sprite sheet etc. was ALREADY SOLVED during pre training. When you temperature sa…

This is a great explanation, thanks for putting it together.

It more or less fits my fuzzy mental model of how this stuff works.

I'm completely fine with my test prompt taking advantage of this - the point of "implement space invaders" is to explore how well it can construct a game of that shape based on the examples that it has seen in its training data, especially in comparison to other models.

I'm not trying for a test of ability to produce a unique new game - I want a short prompt that gets it to output some HTML and JavaScript that I can then interact with.

Re: Open models by OpenAI

#866

Post by saurik »

pxc wrote: post #592
saurik wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you strip all the facts from a mathematician you get me ... I don't need another me: I already used Google, and I already failed to find what I need. What I actually need is someone who can realize that my problem is a restatement of an existing known problem, just using words and terms or a occluded structure that don't look anything like how it was originally formulated. You very often simply can't figure that o…

> What makes these AIs so amazing is thinking of them as entirely replacing Google with something closer to a god I guess that way of thinking may foster amazement, but it doesn't seem very grounded in how these things work or their current capabilities. Seems a bit manic tbf. And again, enabling web search in your chats doesn't prevent these models from doing anything "integrative reasoning", so-to-speak, that they…

Yeah, but like, "relevant facts" is a big part of reasoning? I don't get anywhere near as good results on anything I want from the dumber models, and I almost never get good results from Google searches as, as I said, I already did that. To put it into engineering, people come to me for security stuff, and I've spent my life working in that field, so I just know things that I'd never be able to find with a Google search if I didn't already know the thing I am looking for (and often I can't recover a reference even if I do remember).

I frankly feel people don't spend enough time with ChatGPT 4.5... like, if you haven't yet found use cases that it can do that the other models can't even come close to, are you really using AI effectively?

Re: Open models by OpenAI

#867

Post by 9rx »

FrustratedMonky wrote: post #841
9rx wrote: post #829

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was just referring to the predominant number of cases where Church officials, and Republicans are caught in under-age scandals. But even that is characterized by the "choir boy", not the "baby being baptized". Where is this pedophilia idea coming from?

? Not sure I understand the point you're making. Maybe we are using different age cutoffs. And Republicans are justifying Trumps actions by lowering the age before being considered children? Thus making it not pedophilia?

> Not sure I understand the point you're making.

Where in my questions to try and understand what you are trying to say do you find a point?

> Republicans are justifying Trumps actions by lowering the age before being considered children?

What has you questioning that? I mean, research has shown a link between exposure to certain chemicals and early-onset puberty. It is technically possible to lower the average age where one stops being a child, but that it is being purposefully done by Republicans as some kind of Trump justification is one of the more, uh, interesting conspiracy theories I've heard.

> Thus making it not pedophilia?

Even if we were to buy into this conspiracy theory, it wouldn't change anything about pedophilia. But this has little to do with the discussion that was taking place. As amusing as this has been, let's get back on-topic: Where did the original pedophilia idea you had come from?

Re: Open models by OpenAI

#868

Post by jlaternman »

spongebobstoes wrote: post #611
Eisenstein wrote: post #568

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The water is used to sink heat and then instead of cooling it back down they evaporate it, which provides more cooling. So the answer is 'it eventually becomes rain'.

I understand. but why this is bad? is there some analysis of the beginning and end locations of the water, and how the utility differs between those locations?

Clean drinking water is actually de facto a finite resource. It does recycle through nature, but large reservoirs and water tables are slow to recharge, often taking millennia to form, so there’s a lossiness in that sense — our usage and loss of potable water can’t be higher than the overall recharge rate. So it’s something we could exhaust without big technical breakthroughs (converting salt water quicker than nature does in large quantities, etc). We rely on maintaining a sustainable rate of consumption to avoid setting up future generations for potential catastrophe, basically. Not saying data centre water usage could alone be the difference, but it’s not implausible if it increases exponentially. Another factor is existing reserves can be contaminated and made undrinkable, adding an unpredictable factor into calculations. It’s an interesting topic to read about.

Re: Open models by OpenAI

#869

Post by bigmanhank »

WmWsjA6B29B4nfk wrote: post #697
bigmanhank wrote: post #690

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true: During World War II the Imperial Japanese Navy referred to Midway Island in their communications as “Milano” (ミラノ). This was the official code word used when planning and executing operations against the island, including the Battle of Midway. 12.82 tok/sec 140 tokens 7.91s to first token openai/gpt-oss-20b

What's not true? This is a wrong answer

this was the answer from my instance. it is true. "not true" was refering to the poster

Re: Open models by OpenAI

#870

Post by pickledoyster »

flir wrote: post #702
dsubburam wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m still trying to understand what is the biggest group of people that uses local AI (or will)? Creatives? I am surprised no one's mentioned this yet: I tried to help a couple of friends with better copy for their websites, and quickly realized that they were using inventive phrases to explain their work, phrases that they would not want competitors to get wind of and benefit from; phrases that associate closely w…

> I tried to help a couple of friends with better copy for their websites, and quickly realized that they were using inventive phrases to explain their work, phrases that they would not want competitors to get wind of and benefit from; phrases that associate closely with their personal brand. But... they're publishing a website. Which competitors will read. Which chatbots will scrape. I genuinely don't get it.

there's a difference between an internal brief and a public copy.
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