‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler • Hacker News Board

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#861

Post by halflife » Thu, Jul 31, 2025, 5:43 PM UTC

disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #810

halflife wrote: post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you talking about native Americans? Germans that used to live in Poland? Jews that used to live in Syria? Israelis that lived in Sinai before it was returned to Egypt? Mexicans that lived Texas? Australian aboriginals? Inuits in Canada? How about the one million afghans Iran just expelled? If you’re not happy, that’s on you. Time moves on, you need to accept the existence of the Israeli state.

> If you’re not happy, that’s on you. Time moves on, you need to accept the existence of the Israeli state. Fair enough, but what happens when the US (inevitably) decide that they're not going to support Israel anymore. Bibi has basically turned support of Israel into a culture war argument, and without consistent US support, I'm not sure Israel will survive in it's current form. Mind you, climate change could make t…

Well, Israel successfully won several wars without the US support in its early years. And right now the Israeli weapons manufacturers are booming, look at deals with the romania and Germany.

Its great that most people don’t have problem with our existence, but our neighbors do. That’s why we have wars.

And comparing it to the holocaust is quite different, in the entire Jewish history we never seeked to destroy anyone, we were always targeted because of antisemitism. The Palestinians? They are taught in schools that we are the devil.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#862

Post by spencerflem » Thu, Jul 31, 2025, 5:44 PM UTC

tome wrote: post #622

ben_w wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> About one Israeli was killed for every three Hamas fighters on Oct 7, and it's not an exact comparison for many reasons, but hopefully it provides some perspective. During a surprise attack. The conflict that was started by Oct 7, according to Wikipedia, has seen 81,526+ dead on the Palestinian and associated side*, vs. 2,053 on the Israeli side. That said, from the point of view of your edit: the ratio is irreleva…

> During a surprise attack. Yes indeed, I'm talking about the surprise attack phase. (Israel has experienced a surprise attack before that has put its continued existence in question: the Yom Kippur war.) And in fact, looking at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_7_attacks it seems as though the ratio was closer to 3:2. In any case, Israel is surrounded by a hostile population of hundreds of millions (yes, still h…

I think a better explanation is looking at it like Christopher Columbus outnumbered by the native americans.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#863

Post by tguvot » Thu, Jul 31, 2025, 5:48 PM UTC

cess11 wrote: post #856

tguvot wrote: post #834

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so they tried to breach border en masse, while having armed people among them and got shot only in knees ? sounds like a good outcome for them. israeli citizens didn't have such a good outcome at oct 7 when great march of return succeeded to breach border. and you seems to be angry that they were harmed and not killed. i am confused here. now, you surely know that between 1945 and 1950 about 12m to 14.6m ethnic germa…

They held peaceful demonstrations by the border and got systematically mutilated for it. This is evidence that peaceful struggle is not an option when it comes to ending israeli crimes. What's your skin in this game? Why are you defending a deeply criminal state?

day 1 of peaceful march of return:

Hundreds of young Palestinians, however, ignored warnings by the organizers and the Israeli military to avoid the border zone.[74] Some began throwing stones and Molotov cocktails, to which Israel responded by declaring the Gaza border zone a closed military zone and opening fire at them.[55] The events of the day were some of the most violent in recent years.[75] In one incident, two Palestinian gunmen approached the fence, armed with AK-47 assault rifles and hand grenades, and exchanged fire with IDF soldiers. They were killed and their bodies were recovered by the IDF.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#864

Post by cess11 » Thu, Jul 31, 2025, 5:49 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #860

cess11 wrote: post #859

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing in the israeli conduct is "bog standard". The drop in longevity in the Gaza strip in 2024 outpaces the Rwandan genocide by a large margin. Israel is a colonial enterprise, sustained by colonial practices and ruled largely through the displacement of indigenous populations by settlers. The current crisis in Palestine is hugely damaging to the international judicial order and moves the limits of possible conduc…

> The drop in longevity in the Gaza strip in 2024 outpaces the Rwandan genocide by a large margin Now do Ethiopia, Sudan and Myanmar. (Fact is we generally can’t calculate these statistics in most war zones.) > Israel is a colonial enterprise, sustained by colonial practices and ruled largely through the displacement of indigenous populations by settlers This is a popular refrain in American political science circles…

Sure, let's "do" them. Show the numbers you have in mind.

I don't understand why you are going after that strawman. Settler colonialism is a term that contrasts with exploitative or extractive colonialism, i.e. when a colonial endeavour is established primarily for the purpose of natural resources. That is not the case in Palestine. One could argue that it is true for the israeli diamond industry but I'd rather not, since it would likely soon slide into discourse regarding the existence of neocolonialism and so on.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#865

Post by AlecSchueler » Thu, Jul 31, 2025, 5:53 PM UTC

tguvot wrote: post #835

AlecSchueler wrote: post #771

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that countries halfway around the world are using basic recognition as a coercive tool to shape their democratic expression is exactly why Hamas has any following.

"we would like you to have democratic elections but we would like you to remove highest polling party from democratic process". to be honest, reasons for hamas having following are many, and I doubt that this is the major one

I meant it as part of a broader pattern not the singular issue.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#866

Post by s1artibartfast » Thu, Jul 31, 2025, 5:54 PM UTC

ImJamal wrote: post #499

hersko wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think Israel would just collapse if the US stopped supporting them?

I haven't confirmed the numbers, but I saw an estimate of 75% of Israeli military funding came from foreign aid (primarily the US) and those numbers did not include the US sitting in the Mediterranean with ships intercepting rockets. If they had to cut down their military to 25% they would collapse from outside attacks. Israel would probably figure out the funding so it wouldn't drop by that much though.

If you think it is important to your position, I recommend you look into confirming those numbers.

Israel is spending around 30 Billion/yr now US is currently giving them about 18 Billion/yr US historically gave them about 4 Billion/yr

US spending during the war is about 75% as much as internal spending, not 75% of the total.

If US turned off the money tap, Israel would go from winning several wars at once to having to pick its fights.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#867

Post by cess11 » Thu, Jul 31, 2025, 6:06 PM UTC

tguvot wrote: post #863

cess11 wrote: post #856

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They held peaceful demonstrations by the border and got systematically mutilated for it. This is evidence that peaceful struggle is not an option when it comes to ending israeli crimes. What's your skin in this game? Why are you defending a deeply criminal state?

day 1 of peaceful march of return: Hundreds of young Palestinians, however, ignored warnings by the organizers and the Israeli military to avoid the border zone.[74] Some began throwing stones and Molotov cocktails, to which Israel responded by declaring the Gaza border zone a closed military zone and opening fire at them.[55] The events of the day were some of the most violent in recent years.[75] In one incident, t…

Yes, that is quite peaceful given the circumstances and that thirty thousand people participated. The IDF should have retreated and the israeli government have ended the occupations and started dismantling its colonies in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, then entered negotiations about return and reparations.

To get a feel for how the IDF perceives the Gaza strip border one can watch https://xcancel.com/Timesofgaza/status/1950748519796797515#m or some of the material collected by https://xcancel.com/ytirawi.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#868

Post by halflife » Thu, Jul 31, 2025, 6:17 PM UTC

DrillShopper wrote: post #806

halflife wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Palestinian are not ethno nationalists, they are a theocracy. And as a secular Israeli I would really not like to live under one.

You already do under the Israeli government - you're just living under the one you prefer.

Right, the government which I voted for in 2021 in a democratic and free election, composed of entirely secular Jewish parties, and included an Arabic party as part of the coalition, that’s an example for a theocratic government.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#869

Post by wolf550e » Thu, Jul 31, 2025, 6:18 PM UTC

slt2021 wrote: post #739

tptacek wrote: post #696

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iraqi, Moroccan, Yemeni, Tunisian, Algerian, and Syrian Jewish citizens of Israel cannot in fact "simply pull their 2nd or 3rd passports and go back to where they came from", and this notion that every Israeli has a "3rd passport" (or, for that matter, a 2nd) is itself an ethnic slur.

[flagged]

There have been Jews in Jerusalem, even a majority of Jews, in Ottoman times.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Jerusal...

The Jews of Morocco (or Baghdad, or Tehran) can't go back. For that matter, surviving Polish Jews were chased out of Poland after WWII. Most Israeli Jews are Mizrahi and most Israeli Jews don't have a 2nd passport.

And, of course, people have a right to self determination. Jews don't have to beg to be allowed to live as dhimmi or as a minority in Europe.

One people from the middle east managed to actually decolonize their tiny piece of land from the Arabs, and people have lost their minds. Every minority in the middle east is under attack (Kurds, Druze, Christians, etc.), and Westerners always side with the Arab colonizers.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#870

Post by halflife » Thu, Jul 31, 2025, 6:21 PM UTC

piva00 wrote: post #803

halflife wrote: post #658

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Countries are not owed, they are either won, or given, in every instance of every county in history. Which is exactly how Israel came to be. No one is questioning the existence of Bulgaria as a separate entity from turkey, when they declared independence after the Russo Turkish war.

> No one is questioning the existence of Bulgaria as a separate entity from turkey, when they declared independence after the Russo Turkish war. We would be if they were actively exterminating Turks living in their territory simply because they aren't Bulgarians.

And where the Turks are actively trying to eradicate the entire Bulgarian people? Because that’s the Palestinians modus operandi