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Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

nytimes.com

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Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#861
I worked there for years, still spend a lot of time there, and therefore know a lot of people who either are or were there. Many people associated with the University are pretty happy about it getting smacked down.

Shameless, wrong, and overtly illegal discrimination on the basis of race, sex, and creed, suppression of free speech, even the compelling of speech have all been de rigeur for Harvard for the past decade.

I just wish they would use a scalpel rather than a sledge hammer.

The University (and many other universities) has been engaging in overtly illegal discrimination on the basis of sex, race, and creed in hiring, grants, and I'm sure many other areas. There were many job postings where the CVs of white men were never looked at, because of their skin color and sex. There were many grant-funded opportunities (often federally-funded) where a white man, or a man, or a straight person would not have a chance because of those characteristics. Oh, and I should mention "diversity statements", now called "belonging statements". These are political tests: regardless of your skin color and genitals, if you don't sing the right political song you have no chance. This was a first line assessment at many places (e.g., UC Berkeley). This was all overt in that it was openly talked about, people would send emails to the effect "this job opening must go to a brown woman", etc. People generally, somehow, even Americans, didn't understand it was illegal. I would be greeted with quizzical looks if I enlightened them! (in casual conversation, of course, never officially!). This is all for hiring and similar. Students are different, and since the end of affirmative action Harvard has still been doing everything it can to continue discriminating against e.g. East Asians and Whites, which is of course illegal.

You risked losing your job for expressing an uncool belief (e.g., Carole Hooven: https://www.mindingthecampus.org/2024/02/15/carole-hooven-wh...). Of course, they will try to force you to resign before actually firing you, which would leave open the possibility of legal problems. This may be a sort of "why not, it's a small thing, just say it" to a chemist, but to an endocrinologist or social scientist it can be intolerable.

Compelled speech was on the table, too, which is a bright line we have so far, as a society, have managed not to cross. Harvard and other elite universities were crossing it, and the Biden admin's Title IX rules overtly crossed it (by forcing you to use someone's preferred pronouns). A bad look, to put it mildly.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#862

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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That is just insane. How much do you think it costs or how poor do you think people in say france are where only criminals can afford it?

I didn’t say France, did I? I’m talking about africa, the middle east, much of asia, and parts of eastern europe. E.g.., maybe not Poland, but probably Russia.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#863

I worked there for years, still spend a lot of time there, and therefore know a lot of people who either are or were there. Many people associated with the University are pretty happy about it getting smacked down. Shameless, wrong, and overtly illegal discrimination on the basis of race, sex, and creed, suppression of free speech, even the compelling of speech have all been de rigeur for Harvard for the past decade.…

They are not at all comparable.

Previous admins didn't withhold billions in funding that was already granted, threaten 25% of its student body with expulsion, and try to take away its tax status.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#864

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes ish, see my other comment. Foreign students normally enter via a non-immigrant visa (F1), or rather they are eligible to apply for that visa at an embassy, if a registered sponsor supports it. The visa permits a request for entry into the country for the purpose of study (at a port of entry). The most important document that you need day to day is a DS-2019 and you must remain "in F1 status" in the SEVIS system f…

Ah thanks, that makes sense. It's a pretty weird system.

You can view the DS-2019 as more like a work permit. The visa lets you leave and re-enter the country.

Some European countries work in a comparable way where you don't need a visa at all (depending where you're from), but you can't stay unless you have a valid work permit.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#865

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Harvard does not have "the best and brightest" students and that's a meme that needs to die as is discriminatory to literally all the other students in the US and the planet .

You are nitpicking. It is an elite institution that still attracts elite class people or else it wouldn't be worth so much to so many groups. There are hundreds of universities in the US, many of which have no kind recognition of the kind Harvard has.

One could also call it a bubble. Last as long as it lasts, which is as long as the stakeholders believe in it.

I think your argument doesn't hold. Just because people still believe something to be the case, doesn't mean it really is the case. It being "worth so much to so many groups" just means they believe in it being worth as much. A well formed argument would come up with examples of the brightest hailing from Harvard and perhaps statistics about achievements of former Harvard students.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#866

I worked there for years, still spend a lot of time there, and therefore know a lot of people who either are or were there. Many people associated with the University are pretty happy about it getting smacked down. Shameless, wrong, and overtly illegal discrimination on the basis of race, sex, and creed, suppression of free speech, even the compelling of speech have all been de rigeur for Harvard for the past decade.…

>This was all overt in that it was openly talked about, people would send emails to the effect "this job opening must go to a brown woman", etc.

Source?

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#867

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're beheading like 50% of the S&P my friend... And that's why we call it MAGA Maoism.

rather than say anything likely unconstructive myself in direct response to this, i would very much like to see you elaborate on your understanding of mao and what value and predictive power you find in this comparison.

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Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#868

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s also crazy (read: unconstitutional) to punish students who do have everything to do with these protests.

Often, these protests were overtly supporting an organization officially classed as "terrorist" (HAMAS). The Americans making foreigners who are found to openly support a known terrorist organization leave is par for the course, I would say. If you showed up at the German border and told them you were a HAMAS supporter, my guess is you wouldn't get in. Now, the Trump admin is not this careful, and many people who are…

None of this allows the government to compel Harvard to do something. The government can revoke visas and deport people (after due process) if it wishes to and believes it can make its case.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#869

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure how that’s relevant to pulling their foreign student credentials.

Point is their only option is to seek injunctive relief

> their only option is to seek injunctive relief

…why? Why does an internal Harvard report obviate damages for an unrelated illegal executive action?

I’m not arguing they have that claim. I’m just fairly certain this report doesn’t have anything to do with it.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#870
post #714

Reminder every international student that attends Harvard is a national one that cannot. Trump is simply saying let's focus on our own people.

I'd like to ask: what are 'your own people' doing, by studying in foreign universities? Should they be regarded as traitors?

Reminder: every US international student that attends a foreign university is buying croissants and not squeezy-cheeze.

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