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FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

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Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#861
post #751

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If vibes based epistemology works for you, great. Otherwise, it's my username because it's my birth name, feel free to complain to them or consider the Shel Silverstein and Johnny Cash song about a boy's name. The source link is there for anyone to assess validity and I acknowledge in the comment that the FBI isn't an unimpeachable source. It also isn't so totally careless that an agent would make an affidavit for so…

Why would you assume that? It's entirely plausible that a politically motivated set of agents decided to punish this judge.

> It's entirely plausible that a politically motivated set of agents decided to punish this judge.

Do you mean the agents decided to punish the judge by staging an immigration arrest in order to elicit allegedly unlawful and weird behavior?

The assertions of the affidavit do not have bearing upon whether the proceedings afterward are political in nature or not.

The judge adjourned the alleged wife beater’s hearing without a motion known to the victims or prosecution who were all there waiting. Leaving everything else aside, that is behavior that indicates prejudice for the defendant, a real WTF move.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#862
post #232

The arrest itself (not necessarily the charges) is best described as a publicity stunt. If you want to charge a lawyer or judge or anyone unlikely to run of a non-violent crime, you invite them to the station: > “First and foremost, I know -- as a former federal prosecutor and as a defense lawyer for decades – that a person who is a judge, who has a residence who has no problem being found, should not be arrested, if…

Kash Patel's since-deleted tweet: https://www.threads.com/@pstomlinson/post/DI3-hnfuDvL > Thankfully our agents chased down the perp on foot and he's been in custody since, ... I feel like I'm watching reality TV. Which makes sense, we have a reality TV star for president and his cabinet is full of Fox news hosts.

The judges impeding ICE scenarios has been portrayed on fictional TV too https://thegoodwife.fandom.com/wiki/Day_485

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#863

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One person’s crime doesn’t define a whole group. Most undocumented immigrants follow the law. Justice demands that we hold individuals accountable without using isolated cases to justify broad prejudice.

That doesn't change the fact that if this man was deported, according to the law, the first time he was arrested (he was previously arrested), then my Mom would be able to make us Thanksgiving dinner again, her favorite thing in the world, or it was. The whole group is violating the law by overstaying visas or sneaking in the country, etc. Why is all of that OK to just let happen?

I’m very sorry about what happened to your mom. What has happened to her is not fair to her or you.

However regarding immigration law, the reality is that this law isn’t designed to distinguish between people who are dangerous and people trying to survive. It effectively lumps millions of hardworking people into the same category as violent offenders, without concern for justice or safety.

Trump scapegoats undocumented immigrants as a group and blames them for crime and economic problems. It is cynical manipulation designed to appeal to people who fear crime or have been victims of it.

In fact, it is poverty that causes most crime, and our economic problems are due to the reckless policy choices made by the ultra-wealthy and the politicians they control. Mass deportation does nothing to address the real causes of injustice and insecurity in this country. In fact it serves to distract from the real causes of the problems we are facing.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#864
post #858

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FBI != ICE. It was ICE that showed up to the courtroom. The FBI was only involved in the arrest after ICE was butt hurt and complained to daddy about the situation. ICE does not have authority to arrest citizens. That is why the FBI was involved to be able to make the arrest of a citizen

Ah, sorry, missed that detail. I should've said "why wouldn't the ICE agents likewise be arrested" > ICE does not have authority to arrest citizens ICE has the authority to arrest and deport illegal immigrants, does it not? That's why they were at the courtroom in the first place. If said citizen has zero interest in disproving ICE's belief that they aren't an illegal immigrant, who's going to stop ICE from arresting…

If you're a citizen and get rounded up by ICE, you'd be a complete moron to not be protesting your citizenship and offering up proof of it. Whether they believe you or not is up to them, but I've never heard of a citizen that just went along with the deportation and never objecting about being a citizen. Where do you even come up with this idea on zero interest in disproving ICE?

Hell even Cheech & Chong have a bit/song about this "I was born in East LA".

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#865

A key point here, which the judge brought up with the ICE agents, is that they only had an "administrative warrant".[1] An “ICE warrant” is not a real warrant. It is not reviewed by a judge or any neutral party to determine if it is based on probable cause. "An immigration officer from ICE or CBP may not enter any nonpublic areas—or areas that are not freely accessible to the public and hence carry a higher expectati…

Another key point is that generally speaking the charge of obstruction of justice requires two ingredients: 1) knowledge of a government proceeding 2) action with intent to interfere with that proceeding It doesn't especially matter in this case whether ICE was entitled to enter the courtroom because she's not being charged for refusing to allow them entry to the room. The allegation is that upon finding out about th…

> The government has to prove intent here

Technically all the government has to do is get her on a plane to El Salvador in the middle of the night.

Which is to say, this arm of government has not followed any semblance of due process so far, and is currently defying a unanimous order of the Supreme Court even in a Republican supermajority, pretending due process is something they "have to" do is very much ignoring where we are.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#866

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At what point will Democratic state governors and legislatures have enough of autocratic takeover? States have their own National Guard.

we'll see if/when the lawsuits lauched against the administration is ignored by the administration. But no one wants a civil war. No one would win here except maybe China/Russia.

You discount the people that want to watch the world burn. The tree of...fed with blood...blah blah blah. "Burn it down, start over" is often touted as the fastest/best approach for wholesale changes when the friction to making change is too great.

Economically, China would probably be the biggest beneficiary to a US civil war, especially one that ended with 2 Americas with neither the strength of the former union. Russia would just love to see the chaos and reap whatever gains they could get as well.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#867

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> arresting a sitting judge for failing to arrest someone If the article is accurate, he was arrested for making false statements in a personal capacity, not for failing to act.

You misread the article, or perhaps failed to see the update. This is not "making false statements in a personal capacity." The judge was arrested for failing to do ICE's job for them. That is, ICE wanted to arrest someone and the judge didn't stop them from walking away once ICE had left their courtroom.

> After directing the arrest team to the chief judge’s office, investigators say, Dugan returned to the courtroom and was heard saying words to the effect of “wait, come with me” before ushering Flores-Ruiz and his lawyer through a jury door into a non-public area of the courthouse. The action was unusual, the affidavit says, because “only deputies, juries, court staff, and in-custody defendants being escorted by deputies used the back jury door. Defense attorneys and defendants who were not in custody never used the jury door.”

You're right, I didn't see this update. And while this is indeed not "making false statements" (although it does not rule that out), it's a far cry from "not doing ICE's job for them".

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#868
post #767

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government has to prove intent here, which as some have noted is difficult, but if the facts as recounted in the news stories are all true it doesn't seem that it would be overwhelmingly difficult to prove that she intentionally took action (2) to thwart an arrest that she knew was imminent She is brave. I suspect we will look back on this one day if it goes that far. Even if you are staunch anti-immigration advo…

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Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#869
post #831

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only question is whether obstructing ICE is classified as the legal offense of obstruction There's other questions tbh. I don't know the answers, but I think it is critical to point out. An important one is "does ICE have the authority to operate in the location they were operating in?" If the answer is no, then Dugan's actions cannot be interpreted as interfering with ICE's official operations. You cannot inte…

It's worth adding the director of the FBI posted publicly showing a clear politically motivated bias in an ongoing case. So outside the immediate facts of the case there are questions around presumption of innocence, due process, and a fair trial, as well as prosecutorial misconduct.

  > the director of the FBI posted
This one?[0]

  > showing a clear politically motivated bias in an ongoing case
It is unclear what you mean. Are you saying that Judge Dugan has a clear politically motivated bias or that Kash Patel does? Or both?

  [0] https://x.com/FBIDirectorKash/status/1915800907318468626
      Archive in case gets deleted again[1]:
        https://archive.is/20250425194646/https://x.com/FBIDirectorKash/status/1915800907318468626
  [1] https://gizmodo.com/fbi-director-deletes-tweet-about-arrest-of-wisconsin-judge-but-its-unclear-why-2000594375

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#870
post #820

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I remain horrified that people I really thought were normal Americans are willing to burn it all down just so they don't have to hear Spanish spoken in their doctor's office. The GP (or GGP, I forget) was discussing very specific legal technical details surrounding the judge's actions, the nature of the warrant and permissible locations for serving the warrant. I was pretty interested in that discussion - even thou…

Rule of law and its "equal, impartial, consistent enforcement" is totally a discretionary thing and very much by democratic support. The federal government has stopped enforcing low-level marijuana possession pretty much whole-sale, unless of course you show up at the wrong protests (see Timothy Teagan). Most people seem to think this is just dandy. I would say you would actually destroy "democracy" if you enforced t…

Call me hopelessly naive but I think it's generally a good thing to rescind laws we don't want to enforce (or choose to only occasionally enforce), fix laws that aren't working as intended, and actually enforce the remaining laws we keep.

>totally a discretionary thing

The example I posted about the KKK Grand Wizard being the judicially smuggled person was intended to demonstrate the grave danger of having enforcement of a law (in this case obstruction of justice) be "totally a discretionary thing." The same people who'd (hopefully) be "horrified" by a judge smuggling a KKK member away from law enforcement (pointy white hat and all), want to selectively give a hall pass to this judge for doing the same thing. Paraphrasing Monty Python and the Holy Grail, that's no basis to form a system of government.

> very much by democratic support.

If you're referring to elections, those are, at most, once every two years. I'm not sure how well cops are going to do their jobs with a two-year latency on "what crimes can we arrest people for today?" If you're referring to anything else, you're either endorsing mob rule (kinda the main reason 'rule of law' was invented back in Holy Grail times) or you're placing a lot of faith in "the current people in political, social and cultural power" always being exactly "the kind of righteous people who agree with me on everything important." Especially in light of recent events, I don't think that's a very solid governance plan either.

As a practical example, I'm kind of a wild-eyed radical on immigration. If I was anointed "King of the Land", I'd almost throw open the borders entirely to any and all comers (not quite, but pretty close). Of course, I'd also need to change some other things to make that work, but that's not important right now. And even though I'm that radical on immigration, back when some cities chose to become "Sanctuary Cities" by announcing the current elected officials had decided to just... stop doing their job of enforcing (some) laws - I wasn't happy like you might think. No, even though I liked the outcome in that one instance, it actually troubled me greatly that a handful of individuals elected in the public trust decided to unilaterally seize power by illegally subverting the constitution and their solemn oaths of office.

And the fact I felt that was very bad back then, even over something I generally agreed with, leaves me feeling like I'm on firm logical, ethical, legal and moral ground when it troubles me equally that Trump and his fellow travelers are abusing the public trust in, conceptually, the very same ways. If your support for "the rule of law" depends on who the current ruler is and whether they agree with your personal opinions. I think you're probably gonna have a bad time under any system of government that's not a monarchy or anarchy - with yourself as dictator for life.

On the other hand, I thought it was an incredibly dangerous and illegal expansion of presidential authority when Obama droned a U.S. citizen overseas without due process (even though that person was indeed an active terrorist). I'm funny that way about seizing power unconstitutionally. I'm always against it. No matter who does it or what they do with the stolen power. I hope those who are complaining today that Trump is using (and building on) the unconstitutional presidential power grab techniques that Obama pioneered, but didn't see a problem with it until someone they don't like started doing things they disagree with, are at least learning from this very hard lesson. Abuse of power is wrong no matter who does it or what they do.

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