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How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

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Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#861

Post by mptest »

pmarreck wrote: post #846
clipsy wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do you know she wasn't being arrested for one here? Perhaps we could have some sort of public trial where some of her peers -- let's say a dozen -- could hear the facts and decide on whether she's committed a crime.

Perfect example of what I was angling at: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/doj-says-mahmoud-khalil... (Read the 5 paragraphs that begin with "He allegedly did not disclose".) Everyone was up in arms about this guy a few days ago based on "how things looked"; turns out he was willfully hiding multiple affiliations that would have raised red flags against his visa. Which, of course, now raised a giant red flag agai…

I can't tell if you're deliberately missing the point, or don't know what due process is, but whether or not he had questionable affiliations isn't even the central concern. The suspension of due process is. Any person on our soil is entitled to due process BEFORE getting black bagged and disappeared/deported. Heard of innocent til proven guilty?

from your own source

>However, the government will have to prove to the immigration judge that Khalil willfully failed to disclose that information, and whether that disclosure would have impacted his eligibility for permanent residency.

There is a reason we have a court system, and to sort out these issues BEFORE we take violent action against people here legally is entirely the point.

The fascists are using a law from hundreds of years ago that's only been invoked thrice, all while at war, and the last time to wrongfully put the japanese in internment camps, to circumvent due process - that is the forrest you seem to be willingly missing for the trees.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#862

Post by protocolture »

cycomanic wrote: post #692
acidmath wrote: post #613

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A libertarian will argue that fraud is an act that is not the same as free speech and hence is not covered by free speech. I don't agree with the libertarian viewpoints overall, however I will acknowledge they have a point about the distinction between those two things.

And what is spam? I can acknowledge fraud not being free speech (although it's a stretch as well), i.e. it's intended to harm (again one could argue about a lot of other speech as well), but how can they make the same argument for spam?

Spam is literally commerce. But almost every platform acknowledges it needs to be removed because its unwanted.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#863

Post by mptest »

pmarreck wrote: post #835
c0redump wrote: post #526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t bother trying to convince him. He’s relishing in the brutality against people he hates. He might try to intellectualize it (in the spirit of HN), but it’s coming from a place of pure emotion. Namely, anger, bitterness, resentment, insecurity, fear, and hatred.

Absolutely ridiculous slander. I challenge you to find good evidence against any assertion I make, because I only state things after I have researched them (and not only that, I ask an LLM to counterargue me). I don't hate anyone, I despise ideologies (one of which you are possibly unwittingly representing, without even realizing it, perhaps), groupthink, and baseless assertions or beliefs. And most certainly, basele…

>However, the government will have to prove to the immigration judge that Khalil willfully failed to disclose that information, and whether that disclosure would have impacted his eligibility for permanent residency.

>Baher Azmy, an attorney for Khalil, told NBC News: "These late-breaking, after-the-fact allegations, silly as they are, primarily show that the government must know the supposed 'foreign policy' grounds for Mahmoud’s removal are absurd and unconstitutional."

>Azmy said the government's new claims "cannot change the obvious fact the government has admitted — he is being punished in the most autocratic way for his constitutionally protected speech."

>the government has admitted — he is being punished in the most autocratic way for his constitutionally protected speech.

Gee, almost like we should have a legal system that sorts this stuff out before we take violent action against people here legally.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#864

Post by forgetfreeman »

wredcoll wrote: post #210
forgetfreeman wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much, yeah. I hold both major political parties and their partisans responsible for the current dumpster fire in Washington, and all of the dumb shit that's preceded it over the last 40-odd years.

Wow, what a brave and inspiring position to take. Thank you for signalling your virtue so loudly.

They (the two major political parties in the US) are consistently and provably full of shit and you're mad at me for pointing it out? Not sure what that means. Likewise I reject any claims of virtue signaling when what I'm actually doing is expressing life-long disappointment and frustration at a very nearly complete lack of political representation.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#865

Post by johnnyanmac »

gmueckl wrote: post #648
Chingers wrote: post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not true, article five allows for freedom of opinion, which is very different.

That is not true. Although it uses a different word on the surface, it really is the same legal concept.

"speech" and "opinion" have very different legal definitions.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#866

Post by johnnyanmac »

PartiallyTyped wrote: post #660
FranzFerdiNaN wrote: post #611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also states it might be limited by law. So you can’t promote nazism and call it free speech.

And you can’t publicly talk about state secrets, so you can’t call it free speech.

sure you can. You're likely not granted clearance or in the military. Private citizens don't have a concept of "state secrets".

But yes, a court marshal is a completely different matter. You're speech is restricted if you take steps to work for the government in any capacity. As is your legal channels.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#867

Post by mrguyorama »

ripped_britches wrote: post #156
carterschonwald wrote: post #24

As best I can tell, the simplest way to fight back via legal channels sans unlimited legal budget is to run for office. Like I’m seriously trying to figure out if that’s a sane option for me despite my total disregard and distrust of authority. Also my distinctly aggressive distaste for bullies, traditions or bullshit.

> distinctly aggressive distaste for bullies Good luck with that Just messing, I really hope genuinely good people run for office instead of LBJ type bullies

LBJ's "bullying" is the only reason we have the Civil Rights act.

At the time, a large bloc of senators said: "We will resist to the bitter end any measure or any movement which would tend to bring about social equality and intermingling and amalgamation of the races in our [Southern] states."

The bill was fillibustered for 60 days.

The former confederate states pretty much all voted against it. The south VIOLENTLY resisted desegregation.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#868

Post by johnnyanmac »

h0l0cube wrote: post #425
tetromino_ wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have yet to see a free speech absolutist express concern ... Hi there. You are seeing one right now. Well, seeing the words of one. I am a free speech absolutist. What this administration is doing is abominable. I have always seen anti-Israeli campus posters as idiots, but Trump's crackdown on them is, imho, unconstitutional and immoral.

> anti-Israeli campus posters as idiots The problem with free speech absolutism is that it leads to the 'paradox of tolerance'. We are now seeing the fruits of that line of thinking. > The paradox of tolerance is a philosophical concept suggesting that if a society extends tolerance to those who are intolerant, it risks enabling the eventual dominance of intolerance; thereby undermining the very principle of toleranc…

I don't see the paradox. You can consider some people idiots and find it condemnable for idiots to be kidnapped in vans or have their visas revoked.

If anything it's a slipperly slope logic. These people are idiots -> these people deserve bad things happening. Unfortuntaely, the admin is proving all those fallacies before us.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#869

Post by fundad »

shadowgovt wrote: post #112
zamalek wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say that now. Every system designed to protect the constitution has been captured by him. America has 4 years to set things right, it had better make it count.

Supreme Court Judges have careers that outlive Presidents. I think people consistently misinterpret the overturning of Roe (a calculated, focused effort that took decades and overturned specific judicial precedent that basically had created a right-to-privacy from whole cloth) with "Trump has SCOTUS in his pocket." He doesn't. The GOP got the two things they wanted from tilting the SCOTUS in their direction; there's…

This is assuming one needs to campaign in an election in order to continue their command of the executive branch and the military. I'm pretty sure the president's claim that he can serve a 3rd term means he'll serve for however long he determines, as an official act. Any court that dares issue an order to the contrary will have as little power to enforce their order as they are demonstrating now.
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