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OpenAI O3-Mini

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Re: OpenAI O3-Mini

#861

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you, this is a perfect argument why LLMs are not AI but just statistical models. The original is so overrepresented in the training data that even though they notice this riddle is different, they regress to the statistically more likely solution over the course of generating the response. For example, I tried the first one with Claude and in its 4th step, it said: > This is safe because the wolf won't eat the…

I would expect that if you asked the same question to 100 people off the street they would make the same mistake though. Neither people nor LLMs expect goats to eat wolves.

Comparisons to humans are ultimately misleading because 1) humans are not general intelligences most of the time, 2) humans run on incredibly faulty hardware.

1) Attention is limited. Human reasoning is slow. Motivation is limited. System 1 vs 2 thinking. Many will just tell you to fuck off or get bored and give some random answer to make you go away. Etc. See difference 2.

2) People run on limited hardware in terms or error rate and memory.

2a) Brains make mistakes all the time. Ask them to multiply a bunch of large numbers, using pen and paper they will get it wrong a lot of the time.

2b) Doing it in their head, they will run out of memory pretty fast.

But you wouldn't say that humans can't multiply numbers. When they have the right algorithm, they can do it, they just have to use the right tools to extend their memory and check for errors. A human who notices the difference in input to something he already knows, immediately knows he has to pay attention to that bit and all subsequent parts which depend on it. Once a human has the right algorithm, he can apply it to different inputs.

LLMs:

comparison to 2a: Current LLMs also make a lot of mistakes. But theirs are not a result of faulty or limited hardware, they are the result of a faulty algorithm. Take away the random seeds and an LLM will make the same mistake over and over. Randomness is the smoke and mirrors which make LLMs seem more "alive" and less like machines imperfectly imitating humans.

comparison to 2b) Current LLMs do not store statements in an abstract, structured form where they could save and load information and perform steps such as inferring redundant information from the rest. They operate on the token stream which is probably wasteful in terms of memory and less flexible in terms of what they operations they can perform on it.

Most importantly, they are not limited by memory. The input clearly states "the wolf will eat the cabbage", yet the LLM generates "This is safe because the wolf won't eat the cabbage if they're together on the far side." just a few lines below. It is unable to infer those two facts are contradictory. The statistics of tokens simply worked out in a way that lead to this.

Re: OpenAI O3-Mini

#862
post #669
post #306

I used o3-mini to summarize this thread so far. Here's the result: https://gist.github.com/simonw/09e5922be0cbb85894cf05e6d75ae... For 18,936 input, 2,905 output it cost 3.3612 cents. Here's the script I used to do it: https://til.simonwillison.net/llms/claude-hacker-news-themes...

Currently on the internet people skip the article and go straight to the comments. Soon people will skip the comments and go striaght to an AI summary reading neither the original article nor the comments.

Soon people will read other people's summary that they copied from AI summary on the web.

Re: OpenAI O3-Mini

#863

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you, this is a perfect argument why LLMs are not AI but just statistical models. The original is so overrepresented in the training data that even though they notice this riddle is different, they regress to the statistically more likely solution over the course of generating the response. For example, I tried the first one with Claude and in its 4th step, it said: > This is safe because the wolf won't eat the…

This is a dumb argument. Humans frequently fall for the same tricks, are they not "intelligent"? All intelligence is ultimately based on some sort of statistical models, some represented in neurons, some represented in matrices.

Humans run on hardware that is both faulty and limited in terms of speed and memory. They have a better "algorithm" how to use the hardware to compensate for it. LLMs run on almost perfect hardware, able to store and retrieve enormous amounts of information insanely quickly and perform mechanical operations on it insanely quickly.

Yet they "make mistakes". Those are not the same as human mistakes. LLMs follow an algorithm that is far simpler and inferior, they simply use the hardware to perform incorrect ("illogical", "meaningless") operations, thus giving incorrect results.

See my other replies for more depth.

Re: OpenAI O3-Mini

#864
post #669

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Currently on the internet people skip the article and go straight to the comments. Soon people will skip the comments and go striaght to an AI summary reading neither the original article nor the comments.

But then there will be no comments to summarize.

I wonder about Amazon reviews right now.

Part of the utility of writing a review is that it is read, but the primary search for keywords in reviews now requires the user to wait for AI generated responses first.

Then the user must tap through another link and then expand an individual matching review. It’s absolutely buried.

Re: OpenAI O3-Mini

#865
post #669

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Currently on the internet people skip the article and go straight to the comments. Soon people will skip the comments and go striaght to an AI summary reading neither the original article nor the comments.

I wanted to listen to a podcast where a profesor explains a new drug for ADHD. Instead of spending 2h of my time I spent 5 min reading a summary generated by gpt from a youtube transcript.

I’ve done this with extracted audio from YouTube videos, -> STT -> LLM summary.

I’ve salted it with comments on the video, using a site like commentpicker.com or running JS and loading more and expanding threads manually.

Here’s an example I did for a pal:

You are an expert on building retaining walls. Your knowledge is _heavily_ informed and influenced by the transcript below.

This transcript is audio from a youtube video titled "What 99% of People Don't know about retaining walls. #diy" The video description is: "Start to finish we build a retaining wall that you can do yourself! How to Dig for a wall, How to Base a retaining wall, how to backfill, and MORE!. #retainingwall #diy"

Additional information may be included in comments, which are in the attached CSV. Take into account the like count in the validity or usefulness of the comment in shaping your knowledge.

In giving your replies, try to be specific, terse and opinionated. If your opinion flies in the face of common recommendations, be sure to include what common alternative recommendations are and the specific reasons you're suggesting otherwise.

----

# Transcript

""" [paste transcript] """

# Comments See attached .csv

Re: OpenAI O3-Mini

#866
post #669

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Currently on the internet people skip the article and go straight to the comments. Soon people will skip the comments and go striaght to an AI summary reading neither the original article nor the comments.

I wanted to listen to a podcast where a profesor explains a new drug for ADHD. Instead of spending 2h of my time I spent 5 min reading a summary generated by gpt from a youtube transcript.

[deleted]

Re: OpenAI O3-Mini

#867

For years I've been asking all the models this mixed up version of the classic riddle and they 99% of the time get it wrong and insist on taking the goat across first. Even the other reasoning models would reason about how it was wrong, figure out the answer, and then still conclude goat. o3-mini is the first one to get it right for me. Transcript: Me: I have a wolf, a goat, and a cabbage and a boat. I want to get th…

[deleted]

Re: OpenAI O3-Mini

#868
post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> lobotomise Anyone can write very fast software if you don't mind it sometimes crashing or having weird bugs. Why do people try to meme as if AI is different? It has unexpected outputs sometimes, getting it to not do that is 50% "more alignment" and 50% "hallucinate less". Just today I saw someone get the Amazon bot to roleplay furry erotica. Funny, sure, but it's still obviously a bug that a *sales bot* would do th…

Who determines who gets access to what information? The OpenAI board? Sam? What qualifies as dangerous information? Maybe it’s dangerous to allow the model to answer questions about a person. What happens when limiting information becomes a service you can sell? For the right price anything can become too dangerous for the average person to know about.

> What qualifies as dangerous information?

The reports are public, and if you don't feel like reading them because they're too long and thorough in their explanations of what and why you can always put them into an AI and ask it to summarise them for you.

OpenAI is allowed to unilaterally limit the capability of their own models, just like any other software company can unilaterally limit the performance of their own software.

And they still are even when they're just blantantly wrong or even just lazy — it's not like people complain about Google "lobotomising" their web browsers for no longer supporting Flash or Java applets.

Re: OpenAI O3-Mini

#869
post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> lobotomise Anyone can write very fast software if you don't mind it sometimes crashing or having weird bugs. Why do people try to meme as if AI is different? It has unexpected outputs sometimes, getting it to not do that is 50% "more alignment" and 50% "hallucinate less". Just today I saw someone get the Amazon bot to roleplay furry erotica. Funny, sure, but it's still obviously a bug that a *sales bot* would do th…

> Anyone can write very fast software if you don't mind it sometimes crashing or having weird bugs. Isn’t that exactly what VCs want?

I doubt it.

The advice I've always been given in (admittedly: small) business startup sessions was "focus on quality rather than price because someone will always undercut you on price".

The models are in a constant race on both price and quality, but right now they're so cheap that paying for the best makes sense for any "creative" task (like writing software, even if only to reduce the number of bugs the human code reviewer needs to fix), while price sensitivity only matters for the grunt work classification tasks (such as "based on comments, what is the public response to this policy?")

Re: OpenAI O3-Mini

#870
post #306

I used o3-mini to summarize this thread so far. Here's the result: https://gist.github.com/simonw/09e5922be0cbb85894cf05e6d75ae... For 18,936 input, 2,905 output it cost 3.3612 cents. Here's the script I used to do it: https://til.simonwillison.net/llms/claude-hacker-news-themes...

Something I've not understood about their pricing system.

I have the $20 plan. How does this "3.3612 cents" apply to my situation?

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