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Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

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Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#861

Post by dang »

redeux wrote: post #206
rqtwteye wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are currently witnessing the merging of government and corporations. It was bad before but the process is accelerating now.

[flagged]

Can you please not perpetuate flamewars or use HN for political battle? Your account has unfortunately been doing this repeatedly lately. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for.

If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#862

Post by aylmao »

visarga wrote: post #694
CSSer wrote: post #622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For less than this same price tag, we could’ve eliminated student loan debt for ~20 million Americans. It would in turn open a myriad number of opportunities, like owning a home and/or feeling more comfortable starting a family. It would stimulate the economy in predictable ways. Instead we gave a small number of people all of this money for a moonshot in a state where they squabble over who’s allowed to use which ba…

The problem with allowing student debt to rack up to these levels and then cancelling it is that it would embolden universities to ask even higher tuition. A second problem is that not all students get the benefit, some already paid off their debts or a large part of it. It would be unfair to them.

With half a trillion dollars you can also open a lot of universities. Increased supply would lower prices for everyone. One could even open public universities and offer education at very reduced or no tuition.

Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#863

Post by bun_at_work »

visarga wrote: post #694
CSSer wrote: post #622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For less than this same price tag, we could’ve eliminated student loan debt for ~20 million Americans. It would in turn open a myriad number of opportunities, like owning a home and/or feeling more comfortable starting a family. It would stimulate the economy in predictable ways. Instead we gave a small number of people all of this money for a moonshot in a state where they squabble over who’s allowed to use which ba…

The problem with allowing student debt to rack up to these levels and then cancelling it is that it would embolden universities to ask even higher tuition. A second problem is that not all students get the benefit, some already paid off their debts or a large part of it. It would be unfair to them.

> not all students get the benefit, some already paid off their debts or a large part of it.

I'm one of the people who paid off a large portion of debt and probably don't need this assistance. However, this argument is so offensive. People were encouraged to take out debt for a number of reasons, and by a number of institutions, without first being educated about the implications of that. This argument states that we shouldn't help people because other people didn't have help. Following this logic, we shouldn't seek to help anyone ever, unless everyone else has also received the exact same help.

- slaves shouldn't be freed because other slaves weren't freed - we shouldn't give food to the starving, because those not starving aren't getting free food - we shouldn't care about others because they don't care about me

These arguments are all the greedy option in game theory, and all contribute to the worst outcomes across the board, except for those who can scam others in this system.

The right way to think about programs that help others is to consider cooperating - some people don't get the maximum possible, but they do get some! And when the game is played over and over, all parties get the maximum benefit possible.

In the case of student debt, paying it off and fixing the broken system, by allowing bankruptcy or some other fix, would benefit far more people than it would hurt; it would also benefit some people who paid their loans off completely: parents of children who can't pay off their loans now.

In the end the argument that some already paid off their debts is inherently a selfish argument in the style of "I don't want them to get help because I didn't get help." Society would be better if we didn't think in such greedy terms.

All that said - there are real concerns about debt repayment. The point about emboldening universities to ask for higher tuition highlights the underlying issue with the student loan system. Why bring up the most selfish possible argument when there are valid, useful arguments for your position?

Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#864

Post by diggan »

cmdli wrote: post #374
constantcrying wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They say this will include hundreds of thousands of jobs. I have little doubt that dedicated power generation and storage is included in their plans. Also I have no doubt that the timing is deliberate and that this is not happening without government endorsement. If I had to guess the US military also is involved in this and sees this initiative as important for national security.

Is there really any government involvement here? I only see Softbank, Oracle, and OpenAI pledging to invest $500B (over some timescale), but no real support on the government end outside of moral support. This isn't some infrastructure investment package like the IRA, it's just a unilateral promise by a few companies to invest in data centers (which I'm sure they are doing anyway).

> but no real support on the government end outside of moral support

The venture was announced at the White House, by the President, who has committed to help it by using executive orders to speed things up.

It might not have been voted by congress or whatever, but just those things makes it pretty clear the government provides more than just "moral support".

Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#865

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #846
ahmeneeroe-v2 wrote: post #839

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Private capital. That detail seems to derail your whole comment.

Also the fact that two of the names in the headline are foreign owned. (North Korea is an autark's wet dream.)

Also the fact that they're not going to invest $500B, and this is mostly a puff piece.

As Elon said, they don't the money.

Talk is cheap.

$500B is not.

Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#866

Post by [deleted] »

mattlutze wrote: post #726
mppm wrote: post #558

Apart from my general queasiness about the whole AGI scaling business and the power concentration that comes with it, these are the exact four people/entities that I would not want to be at the tip of said power concentration.

Ellison should be nowhere near this: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2024/09/omnip... The man has the moral system of a private prison and the money to build one.

[deleted]

Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#867

Post by biimugan »

Valakas_ wrote: post #856
biimugan wrote: post #728

I really don't understand the national security argument. If you really do fear some fundamental breakthrough in AI from China, what's cheaper, $500 billion to rush to get there first, or spending a few billion (and likely much less) in basic research in physics, materials science, and electronics, mixed with a little bit of espionage, mixed with improving the electric grid and eliminating (or greatly reducing) fossi…

It's fascinating how most people still don't get it. ASI is basically a god. This is the ultimate solution (or problem). It will push us to the singularity, and create an utopia or drive humanity to extinction. Imagine someone who is so smart that would win every single nobel prize available, and make multiple discoveries in a matter of a year. And now multiply this person's intelligence by 100 (most likely more, but…

This type of comment is another thing I don't quite understand -- as if no one but AI proponents have heard of the Singularity. "There's no point in investing in anything else" is a very presumptive, fact-free idea. It's just begging the question. Many promising false starts have occurred in this area. Predictions from technologists such as Kurzweil have been wrong more than they've been right.

Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#868

Post by vineyardmike »

maxlin wrote: post #854
mppm wrote: post #558

Apart from my general queasiness about the whole AGI scaling business and the power concentration that comes with it, these are the exact four people/entities that I would not want to be at the tip of said power concentration.

I don't like how OpenAI turned majorly from what it was founded upon and their bias training ... but when considering the actual opponent here is China, it's not the worst. I think OpenAI was originally founded against that kind of force. Autocratic governments becoming masters of AI.

I’m an American who was definitely raised in a “China Bad” world.

The last few months, between TikTok ban, RedNote, elections, United Healthcare CEO, etc I’ve seen so many people compare the US to China, and favor China. Which is of course crazy because China has things like forced labor and concentration camps of religious minorities, and far worse oppression than the US. But many people just view everything coming out of the US Gov’s mouth as bad.

Is the Chinese government worse than the US government? Probably. Do people universally think that still? Not really. The US Gov will have to contend with the reality that people -even citizens- are starting to view them and not their “enemy” as the “Bad Guys”.

Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#869

Post by spacechild1 »

buildbot wrote: post #150

This is not a new initiative, and did not start under Trump: https://wire.insiderfinance.io/project-stargate-the-worlds-l... It’s incredibly depressing how everyone sees this as something the new administration did in a single day…

Thank you for bringing some sanity into this discussion.
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