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Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

reuters.com

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Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#861

Post by mkoubaa »

xg15 wrote: post #186
nick_ wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Realistically, West Bank will be gone (totally settled, all Palestinians removed) in 15 years. Gaza will further be ghettoized and, pessimistically, will be basically gone in 50 years or so.

That's indeed the current trajectory, but then what exactly will happen with the Palestinian population in that scenario? All 5+ million crammed into Gaza? Driven into Lebanon, Egypt and Jordan by force? (which are already refusing to take them today, by threat of military action) What else?

It was always about ethnic cleansing. Either they get away with it or somebody stops them.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#862

Post by mapt »

asheri wrote: post #834
xg15 wrote: post #21

Everything else aside, this is an absolutely fantastic development and I really hope the ceasefire holds and all hostages are released. I just fear this will cause western media and politicians to and declare the crisis to be over (after it had began on Oct. 7, of course absolutely out of the blue and without any context...) and go back to pretending everything is back to normal. Never mind that Gaza is still in ruin…

Israel does not have a fundamentalist, authoritarian government! There are some fundamentalist and far-right parties in the current coalition but they have little power to push their own policies except to threaten to bolt the coalition. For all the talk of those 2-3 ministers to who belong to these more extreme parties to eg legitimise new settlements, repopulate gaza, they don't have enough power to actually pass s…

> And it's certainly not authoritarian. Israel has full powers of protest, free speech, and in fact it's generally the press that have the strongest voice not the government.

Israel maintained a prerogative from early in the war to assassinate essentially every known journalist in Gaza, and they did it by bombing their homes and killing their families. West Bank and pro-Arab Israeli journalists were merely arrested and held without charge.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#863

Post by mkoubaa »

cbeach wrote: post #702
tdeck wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gaza is completely unlivable and more Palestinians can be "persuaded" to move abroad now that they literally have no infrastructure to survive.

It's a telling statement about the militant nature of Gazans that not even religiously-aligned neighbouring countries will accept them as immigrants.

They neighboring countries are allowed sovereignty by the west with the condition that they do what Israel tells them to do

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#864

Post by wl »

boringg wrote: post #836
wl wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The conflicts with the Assyrians, Babylonians, and Hittites came down to geopolitical factors that don't exist anymore. Mostly, the Levant separated the empires of Mesopotamia and Anatolia from Egypt. The numerous battles that happened at Meggido occurred because that was a chokepoint of the Way of Horus, the principal land trade route from Egypt specifically and Africa generally to the rest of the world. Besides tra…

The Sunni-Shia conflict falls pretty close to the same line between the Babylonians (south) and Assyrians (north). The Assyrians were constantly attacked by proxies helped out by Egypt (Elamites, Medes, Babylon).

My point, however, is that the Levant as a buffer state against expanding empire and a chokepoint of overland trade has ceased to be the source of conflict. Marine shipping means the Levant is no longer the chokepoint of trade with Africa. We don't have empires trying to grow contiguous swaths of land anymore. To the extent states have tried to grab land in the Levant, they're doing so because the land is adjacent to them, not as a buffer against external empires who find the land strategically useful to control.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#865

Post by lynndotpy »

kragen wrote: post #710
misja111 wrote: post #682

Well it seems everybody was cheering too early: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-01-16/ty-article-li...

This page says, "Error 403 Forbidden. Forbidden. Error 54113." What are you referring to?

Israel bombing Gaza after the ceasefire deal. At least 81 people were killed and at least 188 people were injured. I don't know if those 81 deaths includes the 45 deaths Israel killed from another bombing shortly after the ceasefire was announced.

On Israel's side, Israel claimed Hamas has reneged on parts of the agreement. I can't find any specifics.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#866

Post by mkoubaa »

sabarn01 wrote: post #544
Workaccount2 wrote: post #39

So I suppose it's just back to the status quo? What has really changed that will make a difference in 2-3 years from now? Israel has sowed a whole fresh generation of "I will sacrifice everything to wipe Israel" Palestinian youth.

The problem is unsolvable. You have two sets of people with sets of claims on the same land. Both sides have an unshakable resolve that they are in the right and nothing is going to change that.

No, it is solved by ethnic cleansing or by prevention of ethnic cleansing.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#867

Post by mkoubaa »

pachico wrote: post #732

Don't think I'm taking sides. I'm trying to simply look at it from a neutral bird point of view. I think this cease fire somehow legitimises, to the public eye, Netanyahu's strategy of intense attack. It gives the message of "we won't stop until we get the hostages back" and gives the world a reminder of what this is all about, at least according to what he claims. Again, just trying to observe the message

It was never about the hostages. They used the Hannibal directive on 10/7

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#868

Post by mkoubaa »

throwaway7783 wrote: post #20
null_deref wrote: post #6

Yes, eventually. I have tears in my eyes. Enduring more than a year with a preposterous populist government and endless deaths, this nightmare is finally over.

100% support ceasefire. 100% agree Israel overdid it. 100% support Hamas must cease to exist. Don't leave that last part out

Whatever you think of Hamas, a blockade and/or occupation will result in militant resistance groups.

In every single example of human history without a single exception.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#869

Post by mapt »

pjc50 wrote: post #835
macspoofing wrote: post #803

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a one-sided description of the conflict. I am empathetic to Israel, because they also do not have a lot options. Israel, as it it currently constituted (based on 1967 borders) is not a viable state if the West Bank is a hostile entity with a standing army, and funded to a similar extent as Hezbollah. The West Bank bulges into Israel and effectively cuts the country in half and places all strategic targets wit…

> Israel, as it it currently constituted (based on 1967 borders) is not a viable state if the West Bank is a hostile entity with a standing army, and funded to a similar extent as Hezbollah. The West Bank bulges into Israel and effectively cuts the country in half and places all strategic targets within shelling distance. This is exactly the same argument that Russia has been using to annex territories such as Crimea…

The work that has been going on for the past month is systematically destroying every known air defense asset of the Syrian government (and securing a key mountain peak with newly entrenched ground troops) in order to have a permanent air corridor with which to strike Iran.

The Israeli F-35s can get through right now, but they have limited payload and have to rely on slightly dicey refueling arrangements. With Syria under Israeli air cover, they can run tankers right up to western Iran and strike anywhere in the country.

Repeated, unilateral Israeli aggression is the status quo in the region.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#870

Post by Workaccount2 »

bjourne wrote: post #833
cnlevy wrote: post #769

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hamas + PIJ had a fighting force of ~45 000 at the beginning of the war. They chose to fight it in a heavily urbanized area AMONG CIVILIANS. What human outcome would you expect out of the situation ?

Estimates of Hamas membership originating from Israeli state sources should be taken with a grain of salt. I expect the Israeli regime's blood thirst to be counter-balanced by the desire to free hostages, but apparently not. I don't think bombing hospitals and refugee camps serve any military purpose.

In normal circumstances it doesn't. But Hamas had no shame using non-military sites as cover for military operations. Dead children is the fuel that powered Hamas's international support.

And trust me, these guys just tell themselves those children will be blessed by Allah as martyrs, no biggie.

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