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I automated my job application process

blog.daviddodda.com

861–870 of 884 posts

Re: I automated my job application process

#861

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hundreds of comments, and this is the first one that mentions perhaps the primary root cause of the situation.

Do you work in tech? Have you ever seen any pressure to create LLM-driven chaos with the goal of increasing support for encouraging immigration in future years? It’s too elaborate of a Rube Goldberg strategy to take very seriously. Companies struggle to achieve simple, clear, short-term goals in tight-knit, well-aligned teams. Ain’t nobody got the skill to pull off that level of conspiracy.

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Re: I automated my job application process

#862

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? Is this a 'love it or leave it' comment? I genuinely don't understand what you're meaning to say here.

What I mean is unless your ideal is autarky or USSR under Joseph Stalin, it is hypocritical or ingenuous to expect having a market where you can sell goods and services worldwide but not allowing workers applying and getting jobs worldwide for same companies. That is called free market. So if you happen to think you are missing jobs because they are given to people living in another country, you also have the choice…

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Re: I automated my job application process

#863
post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i saw a tiktok where the guy had his phone propped up but not in view of his webcam, and basically the interviewer's mic was going through his phone on some llm and the llm was spitting out responses for him to reply to the soft questions his interviewer was asking. the interviewer also made him "quickly" turn on his screen sharing so he could see that his computer didn't have anything assisting him. i haven't done a…

But like.. what happens after this supposed trick? I don’t understand how they wouldn’t just be fired after the first week if they can’t actually do the job? Is it that they are applying to places where you don’t pair program?

You're making the (large) assumption that the interviews are actually relevant to the position.

Re: I automated my job application process

#864
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (e.x. why you want this job specifically, because your 100% applying because this is the unicorn job for you, not because you need money to feed yourself) In 99.9% of jobs in the world, there are zero applicants for who this truly holds. You might be working at a company hiring for a job that's part of the 0.1%, not sure. Otherwise, you're just selecting for those who are willing to lie as blatantly as required.

> Otherwise, you're just selecting for those who are willing to lie as blatantly as required. That's a pessimistic way of looking at it, but I'm not going to claim it's wrong. I think my phrasing made it very clear that in most cases I expect if someone includes something about this their interest is going to be ahem embellished. All the same look at it from the hiring managers side. Say you have two candidates, who…

I just find it very unlikely that you really have two candidates who appear equal after 10 minutes of talking to them.

I guess it depends on how much freedom an HM has. Where I've worked, the answer has been "more than enough". Which means you can easily ask e.g. a philosophical question. Ask something unrelated to the job, see what kind of person they are. Chance they'll both respond the exact same way is negligible, and you'll very likely come out preferring one of them. Only few people lie when you give them a good question that doesn't sound like it has a "wrong" answer that would get them a minus.

Does this mean you'll necessarily get the best candidate? No, but it's better than selecting on a proxy for willingness to lie, that's how you end up with people far too good at political games, to detriment of the org.

In places where the HM has little freedom, I guess there's little choice indeed. But even then, I'd try to go with whorver sounds most happen and genuine, rather than most interested in the company per se.

Re: I automated my job application process

#865
Some questions this thread brings up:

1. Why are there so many fake resumes/applications? Who's "applying"? Is it a foreign actor trying to gum up the works?

2. What are people's salary expecations? Are people still asking for salaries of $250k+?

Re: I automated my job application process

#866
post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Our industry is one where actual skills should and do matter [...] Professional rote learning is great for mandarin jobs where you are working within a static prescribed framework (legal, accounting, building codes). Saying things like this reflects poorly on our community and demonstrates a poor understanding on how much creativity and thought goes into legal and accounting. There's a reason there is a large pay b…

Creativity and thought going into accounting ought to be illegal. Albeit I am sure there is plenty of demand for “creative accounting”.

> Creativity and thought going into accounting ought to be illegal

Our society is poor at creating scales and then selecting a cutoff point for illegality. There are 0b10 types of people: binary thinkers and grey area thinkers.

  All-or-nothing thinking (often also referred to as ‘black and white thinking’, ‘dichotomous thinking’, ‘absolutist thinking’, or ‘binary thinking’) is a common form of cognitive distortion or ‘unhelpful thinking style’. People who think in all-or-nothing terms may also act in equivalently extreme ways. They may veer, for example, between complete abstinence and ‘binges’, or between extreme effort and none.

Re: I automated my job application process

#867

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are very mistaken, and it shows you haven't studied enough to rationally discuss the subject matter. Of course later, in time, countries impacted more people. Population grows with time, and any rational comparison along these lines would need to be normalized against population, but the truth in the ambiguity of the latter phrase doesn't make the former phrase true. The inquisition lasted quite a long time (1478…

The Inquisition killed fewer people per year than the State of Texas. About 5 minutes' research will establish that.

You are mistaken, and compare apples to oranges.

Population levels are not the same, this comparison is without basis.

You also assume the formal documented executions are the only deaths where people were killed and died, they are not.

About 5 minutes of 'proper' research based in method, will establish that you are mistaken and don't know what you are talking about. This is the problem when you try to have an AI think for you, you get it wrong, and potentially become delusional.

The inquisition lasted almost three centuries. At its height, Spain had a population of about 7.5 million people. Many prosecutions occurred, but few executions as part of trials. The majority of people died from maltreatment, torture, and executions (absent trials) and these records are sparse in the historical record, but there are credible records to support more died than were executed.

The mortality rate was also significantly higher than it is today, and the families of the accused individuals often died from poverty as a result of fear from guilt-by-association (if you were to include that, most don't). Additionally, the Spanish inquisition inspired surrounding countries to similar acts of terror, and in the Latin America's as well. We are only talking about Spain here. The full global death count as a result of the inquisition is much much higher.

You can find established historical material linked at: https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/39443/what-was-t....

This is the sixth result down on google.

Re: I automated my job application process

#869
post #864

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Otherwise, you're just selecting for those who are willing to lie as blatantly as required. That's a pessimistic way of looking at it, but I'm not going to claim it's wrong. I think my phrasing made it very clear that in most cases I expect if someone includes something about this their interest is going to be ahem embellished. All the same look at it from the hiring managers side. Say you have two candidates, who…

I just find it very unlikely that you really have two candidates who appear equal after 10 minutes of talking to them. I guess it depends on how much freedom an HM has. Where I've worked, the answer has been "more than enough". Which means you can easily ask e.g. a philosophical question. Ask something unrelated to the job, see what kind of person they are. Chance they'll both respond the exact same way is negligible…

> I just find it very unlikely that you really have two candidates who appear equal after 10 minutes of talking to them.

We're talking about a cover letter, no one's been talked to yet. The HM has 100+ candidates who have done web applications with Python or whatever qualifies one for said job, and literally doesn't have time to talk to them all. They also can't ask them random clarifying questions about their life. There's 2 data points, cover letter and resume.

I suggested two ways to make your cover letter more than a rehash of your resume and your latching onto one of them.

Here's the thing: you'll notice in my example I didn't suggest you write "I'm deeply passionate about food brokering" (an actual company I've hired software engineers for). That's not likely to move the needle, it obviously nonsense (Even the owner is didn't meet that description), and much like saying "I've got a deep mastery of Python" it's just empty words without something backing it.

Instead I suggested learning about what the company does, thinking about what the job entails beyond just "writing software according to the tickets" and what it actually accomplishes and expressing what about that interests you.

Is that person's interest going to end up exaggerated? Sure probably. But they're actually interested enough to put in the effort to think through that, and that effort, like it or not is a signal. Even the most pessimistic view means at least they were willing to work harder at it.

But look, maybe your applying at a subprime lender or something equally parasitic and are either so desperate that your doing it anyway or just cynical enough to not care, yet still have some moralistic hangup about this. Then don't. I suggested other things you can bring to your cover letter that don't fit on a resume. But if you make your cover letter your resume but in paragraph form (which is all the AI can do, since that's the only data it has), then you've reduced those data points the manager has to decide if your worth talking to from 2 down to 1. You might as well have skipped the cover letter entirely and at least saved them some time. (Actually that's not true, because often a cover letter is expected and they'll ding you for not having it, but including a bullshit rephrasing of your resume for that reason is no less performative than the expression of interest your already bothered by)

Re: I automated my job application process

#870
post #333

If any students or aspiring career-switchers are paying attention, now is a great time to start 10Xing your networking game. Stand out by being known.

What do you mean by being known?

I mean "be known by people, specifically people who know you as trustworthy, likable, and intelligent, and who might be able to help you get a job".
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