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Cooking with black plastic is particularly crucial to avoid

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Re: Cooking with black plastic is particularly crucial to avoid

#861

Post by mossTechnician »

TheRealPomax wrote: post #858
mossTechnician wrote: post #846

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused by your interest in shifting the discussion away from the company that has enough money and lawyers to know better, and back towards anyone but them. Can't we discuss the company's responsibility?

Not without picking correct similes or metaphores, no.

Okay, if we must look at metaphors and not the thing you insist we must not look at:

> if you're old and you die in an accident, you died of old age, not "that specific accident"

Your metaphor absolves any drunk driver from murder charges as long as their victim is old enough.

Re: Cooking with black plastic is particularly crucial to avoid

#862

Post by aucisson_masque »

azinman2 wrote: post #802
cogidub wrote: post #743

Earlier quoted context omitted.

unfortunately microplastics are found in oil from both glass and plastic packaging. possibly contam from manufacture? Analysis of microplastics in commercial vegetable edible oils from Italy and Spain - 2024 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S03088... • MPs were detected in all samples which were stocked in both PET and glass bottles.

But in what concentrations? Seems to require paying to access, couldn’t see the raw data. That’s not the only thing to worry about - other chemicals leach over time. Constantly putting olive oil in contact with plastic will just continue to concentrate it.

That's my point.

> You can at best mitigate it by being proactive and wealthy enough but it's still not enough.

Even with your example of free pollutant olive oil, it's easy to find studies that it is in fact contaminated.

I'm sure it's rather limited, but the point remains that pollution is inevitable nowadays.

I worked in building construction, we learned at formation that because of the asbestos used in construction all over the country there is now asbestos fiber in the air absolutely everywhere. Again, it's maybe 1 fiber per liter in middle of countryside, but still...

Pollution is rather recent, it's been only 200 years we pollute so much and the fact is its effects are increasing very fast.

Re: Cooking with black plastic is particularly crucial to avoid

#863

Post by jessekv »

Eumenes wrote: post #32
ninininino wrote: post #6

Just cook with stainless steel, it's not that hard. Add and warm fat before adding your other ingredients to prevent sticking or if you don't want additional fat, then add liquid to reduce at the end (the same way you do a wine reduction you can just use a bit of water) if your food sticks and you need to scrape it off the bottom.

This - its super easy. I use an IR temp gun and once the pan is 170, add 1 tbsp. of butter, and it never sticks. I've showed friends and they still insist on their nasty Teflon/non-stick crap.

Does your IR temp gun accurately measure a shiny stainless steel surface?

Re: Cooking with black plastic is particularly crucial to avoid

#864

Post by idiotsecant »

shiroiushi wrote: post #110
scohesc wrote: post #15

There's a bottom of the barrel, dollar store brand under the Betty Crocker name brand in Canada - all black plastic cooking utensils, cheapest you can get in all varieties. Every time I go over to mom's place it's so shocking to see these utensils being used for high heat applications they were never meant to be used for. Flipping burgers in a pan, moving fries on a baking sheet - the ends of them are all warped and…

>Every time I go over to mom's place it's so shocking to see these utensils being used for high heat applications they were never meant to be used for. >educating her about how much plastic and teflon she has (and by extension I have) been eating over the years but it's in one ear and out the other. I have much the same problem, though luckily I haven't lived with her for ages. According to her, eating plastic and te…

Is she wrong?

Re: Cooking with black plastic is particularly crucial to avoid

#865

Post by GuB-42 »

genuinelydang wrote: post #699
zeroonetwothree wrote: post #677

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren’t very toxic to humans either.

Overheat your Teflon pan, take a good huff, wait a few hours and post that comment again. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymer_fume_fever ”When PTFE is heated above 450 °C the pyrolysis products are different and inhalation may cause acute lung injury. Symptoms are flu-like (chills, headaches and fevers) with chest tightness and mild cough. Onset occurs about 4 to 8 hours after exposure to the pyrolysis products of…

I don't think a regular stovetop can get a pan to 450°C, my gas stove gets an empty pan to about 300°C maximum. It doesn't happen in normal situations, if it happens it probably means you forgot your pan on the stove. Heating Teflon at 300°C for several hours is bad, but personally, in that situation, I would worry more about causing a house fire.

Teflon flu is a thing, but it is relatively rare, especially considering how widespread Teflon pans are. That's a few hundred cases per year in the US, by comparison, there are about 1000x more house fire, with cooking equipment being a leading cause.

Re: Cooking with black plastic is particularly crucial to avoid

#866

Post by account42 »

timr wrote: post #569
dfxm12 wrote: post #484

From gidmkhealthnerd, a scientific fact-checker: Counterpoint: this seems to be the crusade of a single researcher - I don't find the data personally convincing and am still using my black spatula for cooking. https://www.threads.net/@gidmkhealthnerd/post/DBxbQERykRx?hl...

That's true of nearly everything in this space. You'll find lots and lots of comments below about PFAS and Teflon pans, for example, ranging from factual-but-misleading (e.g. "Teflon pans can emit harmful gases when overheated") to bald assertions (multiple variations on "Teflon pans are harmful to your health") with no context or specificity to the claim. Setting aside the fact that the purported harms (if specified…

Teflon pans are shit even if they don't poison you because they are too easy to break and even if you treat them carefully they never last very long.

But you should also consider that only one or a few people championing for change is how safty has historically improved. We have had too many cases of industries knowingly poisinging people for profits while funding studies that say everything is fine and marginalizing the few reasearches who have morals and don't just go after the biggest profits to discard concerns like this just because there is only one person championing them.

Re: Cooking with black plastic is particularly crucial to avoid

#867

Post by account42 »

TheRealPomax wrote: post #747
tolciho wrote: post #731

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Old folks, with a fine case of white matter decline. Distracted folks, because the baby just threw up. Sick folks, whose processing power is a bit covided. Young folks doing stupid things, possibly on a video dare.

To quote Chris Rock: if you're old and you die in an accident, you died of old age, not "that specific accident". If your mind's going, and that makes you do something that'll kill you, your mind going is what killed you.

Sure we could make excuses for unsafe products.

Or we could recognize that lapses of judgement are something every human is capable of and demand such outrageous things that our cookware remains safe at any temperature a reasonable stovetop can produce. Really it shouldn't just be safe but also not break the cookware.

Re: Cooking with black plastic is particularly crucial to avoid

#868

Post by account42 »

TheRealPomax wrote: post #841
mossTechnician wrote: post #829

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And for distracted folks in the same example, it's what... The baby? If a company knowingly uses a toxic chemical, it shouldn't be everybody else's fault they did that.

Tell me you haven't had a baby without telling me you haven't had a baby. You are fucking 10x more aware of bullshit you're doing just to keep baby safe. Probably more like 100x, really. Nothing focusses your mind like having CREATED A HUMAN THAT MUST BE KEPT SAFE AT ALL COST.

... until you aren't. Plenty of dead babies to prove the point.

Re: Cooking with black plastic is particularly crucial to avoid

#869

Post by khafra »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #855
RandomThoughts3 wrote: post #818

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sure. let's make food more expensive for poor people. The magic of deposit refund system is that you only pay more once. Plus really poor people can actually collect unreturned items to make some change. Have you ever considered how things worked before plastic? > I have no clue That much is pretty clear. I’m very happy to see that you are able to claw at anything so that your initial impossible as actually been ex…

> The magic of deposit refund system is that you only pay more once. Your insight into the economics of this is shallow. If plastic is cheaper than glass, a "deposit refund scheme" doesn't fix the fact that forcing everything to glass makes it more expensive. Glass jars aren't just washed and reused, they have to be melted down to be reused at all. There's a big fuel usage penalty there (not to mention this is fossil…

> Glass jars aren't just washed and reused, they have to be melted down to be reused at all.

Glass, unlike plastic, is impermeable. In Germany, the pfand system incentivizes bottle return by around $.10 to $.50 per glass bottle; and they're washed & sterilized, then re-used.

This does work as a subsidy for poor people with time on their hands; pfand bottles are often left next to outdoor trash cans instead of in them, and they usually disappear very quickly.

Re: Cooking with black plastic is particularly crucial to avoid

#870

Post by genuinelydang »

timr wrote: post #837
kelipso wrote: post #786

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You only have to huff it for a few seconds, and then turn off the heat. The symptoms are what shows up hours later.

how much of "it" is there? what is the concentration? dose makes the poison, not time.

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