M4 MacBook Pro • Hacker News Board

Re: M4 MacBook Pro

#861

Post by theshrike79 » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 9:33 AM UTC

amelius wrote: post #579

lukev wrote: post #535

I really respect Apple's privacy focused engineering. They didn't roll out _any_ AI features until they were capable of running them locally, and before doing any cloud-based AI they designed and rolled out Private Cloud Compute. You can argue about whether it's actually bulletproof or not but the fact is, nobody else is even trying, and have lost sight of all privacy-focused features in their rush to ship anything a…

> Private Cloud Compute That's such a security theater. As long as nobody can look inside their ICs, nobody knows what's really happening there.

Oh? https://www.theregister.com/2024/10/25/apple_private_cloud_c...

> "Today we’re making these resources publicly available to invite all security and privacy researchers – or anyone with interest and a technical curiosity – to learn more about PCC and perform their own independent verification of our claims."

https://security.apple.com/documentation/private-cloud-compu...

There are also a million dollars of bounties to be had if you hack it

Re: M4 MacBook Pro

#862

Post by theshrike79 » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 9:35 AM UTC

heraldgeezer wrote: post #783

lukev wrote: post #535

I really respect Apple's privacy focused engineering. They didn't roll out _any_ AI features until they were capable of running them locally, and before doing any cloud-based AI they designed and rolled out Private Cloud Compute. You can argue about whether it's actually bulletproof or not but the fact is, nobody else is even trying, and have lost sight of all privacy-focused features in their rush to ship anything a…

>I am thrilled to shell out thousands and thousands of dollars to purchase a machine that feels like it really belongs to me, from a company that respects my data and has aligned incentives. Build a desktop PC, yes like a nerdy gamer. ^_^ Install Linux Been the way for years.

Gamer + Linux is asking for trouble though.

Re: M4 MacBook Pro

#863

Post by theshrike79 » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 9:37 AM UTC

jader201 wrote: post #483

AdamJacobMuller wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. I've never kept any laptop as long as I've kept the M1. I was more or less upgrading yearly in the past because the speed increases (both in the G4 and then Intel generations) were so significant. This M1 has exceeded my expectations in every category, it's faster quieter and cooler than any laptop i've ever owned. I've had this laptop since release in 2020 and I have nearly 0 complaints with it. I wouldn't upgr…

> I've never kept any laptop as long as I've kept the M1. My 2015 MBP would like to have a word. It’s the only laptop purchase I’ve made. I still use it to this day, though not as regularly. I will likely get a new MBP one of these days.

2015 MBP here too, even got a new topcase and a battery replaced for free because it had some issues according to Apple.

Can't get the latest macOS on it though, but otherwise it still works perfectly well.

Kinda considering upgrading it to a used M1/M2 one at some point.

Re: M4 MacBook Pro

#864

Post by theshrike79 » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 9:38 AM UTC

monocasa wrote: post #495

davidczech wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s usually filmed on weekends

You would just think that with a brand so intrinsically wrapped around the concept of technology working for and with the people that use it, you'd want to show the people who made it if you're going to show the apple campus at all. It kind of just comes off as one of those YouTube liminal space horror videos when it's that empty.

Easier to track continuity between takes if you don't have people in the background.

Re: M4 MacBook Pro

#865

Post by miahi » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 9:42 AM UTC

grecy wrote: post #860

toxicdevil wrote: post #814

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These numbers are misleading (as in not apples to apples comparison). M4 has a matrix multiply hardware extension which can accelerate code written (or compiled) specifically for this extension. Also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40339248

So you're saying Apple added something to the design to make it do things faster...which is literally the definition of improvement. When a company adds a supercharger to a car does it not count as faster? When I add more solar panels to my roof does it not count as more power? Surely doing this kind of thing is exactly what we want companies to be doing to make their products faster/better.

It will be faster only for code that uses/is optimized for that specific extension. And the examples you give are not really correct.

If you add a supercharger you will get more power, but if the car's transmission is not upgraded, you might just get some broken gears and shafts.

If you add more solar panels to your roof, you might exceed the inverter power, and the panels will not bring benefits.

It's true that you will benefit from the changes above, but not just by themselves - something else needs to change so you can benefit. And in the case of the M4 and these extensions, the software needs do be changed and also to have an use case for these extensions.

Re: M4 MacBook Pro

#866

Post by lynx23 » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 9:47 AM UTC

dmz73 wrote: post #562

lukev wrote: post #535

I really respect Apple's privacy focused engineering. They didn't roll out _any_ AI features until they were capable of running them locally, and before doing any cloud-based AI they designed and rolled out Private Cloud Compute. You can argue about whether it's actually bulletproof or not but the fact is, nobody else is even trying, and have lost sight of all privacy-focused features in their rush to ship anything a…

Mac OS calls home every time you execute an application. Apple is well on its way to ensure you can only run things they allow via app store, they would probably already be there if it wasn't for the pesky EU. If you send your computer/phone to Apple for repair you may get back different physical hardware. Those things very much highlight that "your" Apple hardware is not yours and that privacy on Apple hardware does…

The EU is center-right-wing, and laughs all the way to the bank whenever someone like you falls for their "we externally pretend to be the good guys" trope. Leyen is pretty much the worst leadership ever, but they still manage to convince the politically naiv that everything is fine, because of GDPR, AI laws and huge penalties for big tech. Its sad how simple it is to confuse people.

Re: M4 MacBook Pro

#867

Post by squishy47 » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 9:50 AM UTC

joshdavham wrote: post #620

Question to more senior Mac users: how do you usually decide when to upgrade? I bought my first Macbook pro about a year and a half ago and it's still working great.

I just pre-ordered the m4 pro. upgrading from a late 2013 mbp with a battery that would probably void my home insurance if they found out.

can't justify the constant upgrade when it doesn't make me money (work provide one). very excited about the new one though

Re: M4 MacBook Pro

#868

Post by randomcarbloke » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 9:52 AM UTC

dmz73 wrote: post #562

lukev wrote: post #535

I really respect Apple's privacy focused engineering. They didn't roll out _any_ AI features until they were capable of running them locally, and before doing any cloud-based AI they designed and rolled out Private Cloud Compute. You can argue about whether it's actually bulletproof or not but the fact is, nobody else is even trying, and have lost sight of all privacy-focused features in their rush to ship anything a…

Mac OS calls home every time you execute an application. Apple is well on its way to ensure you can only run things they allow via app store, they would probably already be there if it wasn't for the pesky EU. If you send your computer/phone to Apple for repair you may get back different physical hardware. Those things very much highlight that "your" Apple hardware is not yours and that privacy on Apple hardware does…

>Apple is well on its way to ensure you can only run things they allow via app store

that ship has well and truly sailed, this conspiracy might once have held water but Apple's machines are far too commercially ubiquitous for them to have any designs on ringfencing all the software used by all the industries that have taken a liking to the hardware.

Re: M4 MacBook Pro

#869

Post by bilbo0s » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 10:06 AM UTC

siajdsioajd wrote: post #763

lukev wrote: post #535

I really respect Apple's privacy focused engineering. They didn't roll out _any_ AI features until they were capable of running them locally, and before doing any cloud-based AI they designed and rolled out Private Cloud Compute. You can argue about whether it's actually bulletproof or not but the fact is, nobody else is even trying, and have lost sight of all privacy-focused features in their rush to ship anything a…

They just have really good marketing. You fell for their pandering. If you really care about privacy use Linux. But Apple ain't it. Closed source and proprietary will never be safe from corporate greed. > https://archive.ph/Z9z0H

Linux doesn't give you privacy guy.

If you're using the web, your privacy is about your browser and your ISP, not your OS.

At times, it's even about how you use your browser. No browser will save you from telling google too much about yourself by using gmail, and viewing youtube videos, and using search. The AI's and algorithms collating all that information on the backend see right through "incognito" mode.

Telling people they can get security and privacy by using Linux, or windows, or mac just betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of the threat surface.

Re: M4 MacBook Pro

#870

Post by bilbo0s » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 10:17 AM UTC

miahi wrote: post #865

grecy wrote: post #860

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're saying Apple added something to the design to make it do things faster...which is literally the definition of improvement. When a company adds a supercharger to a car does it not count as faster? When I add more solar panels to my roof does it not count as more power? Surely doing this kind of thing is exactly what we want companies to be doing to make their products faster/better.

It will be faster only for code that uses/is optimized for that specific extension. And the examples you give are not really correct. If you add a supercharger you will get more power, but if the car's transmission is not upgraded, you might just get some broken gears and shafts. If you add more solar panels to your roof, you might exceed the inverter power, and the panels will not bring benefits. It's true that you…

Are you implying there are no use cases for matrix multiply?

In any case, the two main deep learning packages have already been updated so for the place this change was almost certainly targeted for, your complaint is answered. I'm just stunned that anyone would complain about hardware matrix multiplication? I've wondered why that hasn't been ubiquitous for the past 20 years.

Everyone should make that improvement in their hardware. Everyone should get rid of code implementing matrix mult and make the hardware call instead. It's common sense. Not to put too fine a point on it, but your complaint assumes that GeekBench is based on code that has implemented all those changes.