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Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

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Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#861

Post by consteval »

carlosjobim wrote: post #856
consteval wrote: post #843

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The house is "made more expensive" because land and materials are scarce. You can, right now, build your own house. And it won't be cheap if it's anywhere that matters. Also we have standards and regulations. Turns out burning down entire cities because of some cost cutting sucks, so we did away with that.

Neither land nor materials are scarce. They've been artificially made expensive to prop up the feudal system. This planet is still mostly wilderness - go zoom in anywhere on Google Maps and you'll see. And building materials are easy to find in nature everywhere except for in the oceans and the deserts. I know it's easy and a habit to always defend the status quo, no matter what it is, but when it comes to housing th…

> This planet is still mostly wilderness

Ah, you made the classical blunder of forgetting location matters!

Living in the woods sounds grand until you have to live in the woods. The vast majority of humans prefer to live in Urban areas, where land is more expensive.

Living in the woods also sounds fun until you realize you have no infrastructure for anything. How will you shop? Cook? Entertain yourself?

There is a lifestyle there, yes. But that's the trick - lifestyle. You have to dedicate your life to achieving just the basics.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#862

Post by lolc »

nemo44x wrote: post #764
lolc wrote: post #634

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good public infra is wealth with much higher utility than private infra.

Roads are public infra. I agree they should be kept in good order.

In general yes. In particular some roads provide negative utility and should be closed or not built.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#863

Post by carlosjobim »

consteval wrote: post #861
carlosjobim wrote: post #856

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither land nor materials are scarce. They've been artificially made expensive to prop up the feudal system. This planet is still mostly wilderness - go zoom in anywhere on Google Maps and you'll see. And building materials are easy to find in nature everywhere except for in the oceans and the deserts. I know it's easy and a habit to always defend the status quo, no matter what it is, but when it comes to housing th…

> This planet is still mostly wilderness Ah, you made the classical blunder of forgetting location matters! Living in the woods sounds grand until you have to live in the woods. The vast majority of humans prefer to live in Urban areas, where land is more expensive. Living in the woods also sounds fun until you realize you have no infrastructure for anything. How will you shop? Cook? Entertain yourself? There is a li…

I wrote in the comment above that land and housing is expensive also in regions with low population density. Because the land owners there also demand top dollar for the land they have. The same problems are in rural areas as in urban areas, of course it is accentuated more in urban areas since those are also places where people can make a high income and population is denser.

I've lived in the woods, so I know exactly how it is. As long as you have a vehicle you are fine. Haven't you ever been outside of a city in your life? They have energy and modern comforts. I've lived off grid as well, and that was fine. You have to plan differently.

You are arguing from obsolete standpoints, which probably have never been true. Why? To defend a status quo that is strangling generations of people?

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#864

Post by consteval »

carlosjobim wrote: post #863
consteval wrote: post #861

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This planet is still mostly wilderness Ah, you made the classical blunder of forgetting location matters! Living in the woods sounds grand until you have to live in the woods. The vast majority of humans prefer to live in Urban areas, where land is more expensive. Living in the woods also sounds fun until you realize you have no infrastructure for anything. How will you shop? Cook? Entertain yourself? There is a li…

I wrote in the comment above that land and housing is expensive also in regions with low population density. Because the land owners there also demand top dollar for the land they have. The same problems are in rural areas as in urban areas, of course it is accentuated more in urban areas since those are also places where people can make a high income and population is denser. I've lived in the woods, so I know exact…

> As long as you have a vehicle you are fine

Right, so a vehicle... and a road and a city and thousands of years of human innovation.

> They have energy and modern comforts

Right, at the expense of the city which keeps the rural and even suburban areas on Welfare. Because providing funding to places where nobody lives in a money burner. Luckily, the "status-quo" is 100% to burn money on rural and suburban areas.

So, congratulations, the status-quo benefits you.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#865

Post by carlosjobim »

consteval wrote: post #864
carlosjobim wrote: post #863

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wrote in the comment above that land and housing is expensive also in regions with low population density. Because the land owners there also demand top dollar for the land they have. The same problems are in rural areas as in urban areas, of course it is accentuated more in urban areas since those are also places where people can make a high income and population is denser. I've lived in the woods, so I know exact…

> As long as you have a vehicle you are fine Right, so a vehicle... and a road and a city and thousands of years of human innovation. > They have energy and modern comforts Right, at the expense of the city which keeps the rural and even suburban areas on Welfare. Because providing funding to places where nobody lives in a money burner. Luckily, the "status-quo" is 100% to burn money on rural and suburban areas. So,…

> Right, so a vehicle... and a road and a city and thousands of years of human innovation.

Or a boat, you know? Roads are everywhere and have nothing to do with any urban/rural division you feel so strongly about.

> So, congratulations, the status-quo benefits you.

I live in the city.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#866

Post by jjav »

consteval wrote: post #844
jjav wrote: post #704

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cars and roads only scale so much before you physically can't move more people fast enough even with more roads and more lanes. Rail scales way better. Before scaling people moving up so much, I'd question why encourage so much movement. Instead, let's encourage local areas which are walkable/cycleable that contain 95% of what people need. By eliminating the need for 95% of high-speed people moving (whether by car,…

> Instead, let's encourage local areas which are walkable/cycleable that contain 95% of what people need The only way to achieve this is density. Urban areas. When people want to live in big sprawling suburbs with nice homes, you just can't get this. It's not possible. The problem is that you can make MUCH more money building huge homes than affordable housing. And people, being ultra-individualistic, believe they ne…

> When people want to live in big sprawling suburbs with nice homes, you just can't get this. It's not possible.

What you call "not possible" is where I live, so clearly it is possible.

Trying to shoehorn all solutions into one and only one way of doing things turns people off and hinders progress.

Sure you can have dense urban areas that are walkable/cycleable. You can also have suburbs that are walkable/cycleable. Instead of turning people away from a good cause by telling them they can't have the life they want, let's promote walkable/cycleable communities in all areas.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#867

Post by sadcherry »

jacooper wrote: post #718
sadcherry wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Airtravel is also subsidised by the German tax payer. Much more than the 49 EUR ticket. No matter if you are a tourist or not. (Arguably mostly for tourists actually.)

How is it subsidized while a local flight costs more than an international one? The idea is to push people to use the train, but a train isn't an alternative if it takes 9 hours compared to the 2 hour flight.

ICE from Hamburg to Munich is about 5 hours. That's basically the other end of the country. Not sure where 9 hours come from.

And your 2 hour flight easily goes to 4-5 hours if you add the security theatre and the extra overhead that transport to/from the airport entails. They are far outside the city whereas central stations are usually in the city center.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#868

Post by consteval »

jjav wrote: post #866
consteval wrote: post #844

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instead, let's encourage local areas which are walkable/cycleable that contain 95% of what people need The only way to achieve this is density. Urban areas. When people want to live in big sprawling suburbs with nice homes, you just can't get this. It's not possible. The problem is that you can make MUCH more money building huge homes than affordable housing. And people, being ultra-individualistic, believe they ne…

> When people want to live in big sprawling suburbs with nice homes, you just can't get this. It's not possible. What you call "not possible" is where I live, so clearly it is possible. Trying to shoehorn all solutions into one and only one way of doing things turns people off and hinders progress. Sure you can have dense urban areas that are walkable/cycleable. You can also have suburbs that are walkable/cycleable.…

> You can also have suburbs that are walkable/cycleable

You can, but not to the same degree. Because it's just a matter of distance and density.

If you have a store and you have to service, say, 1,000 people to make it profitable you might have a store every .5 miles in the city. Maybe that then translates to 5 miles in the suburb. Well... it's not very easy to walk 5 miles. It's trivial to walk .5 miles.

Stores are one example, but this really applies to literally everything. Besides things like parks, which don't need to turn a profit.

Sure, you can have walkable suburbs in that you can walk in the suburbs. But, to me, that's not what walkable means. Walkable means I should be able to do ALL of my tasks, whatever they may be, without a car. That's not possible in a suburb. I can't walk to the office, or the store, or the bank, or whatever. But it's very possible, and even trivial, in cities.

"Walkable" infrastructure only really matters if there's somewhere to walk to. Sure, it's nice having sidewalks that lead nowhere, but people won't turn to them like they would in Chicago.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#869

Post by consteval »

carlosjobim wrote: post #865
consteval wrote: post #864

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As long as you have a vehicle you are fine Right, so a vehicle... and a road and a city and thousands of years of human innovation. > They have energy and modern comforts Right, at the expense of the city which keeps the rural and even suburban areas on Welfare. Because providing funding to places where nobody lives in a money burner. Luckily, the "status-quo" is 100% to burn money on rural and suburban areas. So,…

> Right, so a vehicle... and a road and a city and thousands of years of human innovation. Or a boat, you know? Roads are everywhere and have nothing to do with any urban/rural division you feel so strongly about. > So, congratulations, the status-quo benefits you. I live in the city.

> I live in the city

That's actually hilarious

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#870

Post by retinaros »

andrepd wrote: post #858
retinaros wrote: post #757

Earlier quoted context omitted.

parking costs over 200euros a day in Paris. the city also is on the board of private parking companies…. conflict of interest is high, corruption is also knocking at the door. greenwashing is the new criminal activity for suits

Yeah, any sane person looks at Paris and their first thought is "hmm, this needs more cars".

what is the relation. no one ever talked about more cars. I a merely asking why the mayor office is at the board of private parking companies getting paid for that while at the same time removing public parking space.
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