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Open source AI is the path forward

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Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#861

Post by dastbe »

epaulson wrote: post #56
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #7

“The Heavy Press Program was a Cold War-era program of the United States Air Force to build the largest forging presses and extrusion presses in the world.” This ”program began in 1944 and concluded in 1957 after construction of four forging presses and six extruders, at an overall cost of $279 million. Six of them are still in operation today, manufacturing structural parts for military and commercial aircraft” [1].…

The National Science Foundation has been doing this for decades, starting with the supercomputing centers in the 80s. Long before anyone talked about cloud credits, NSF has had a bunch of different programs to allocate time on supercomputers to researchers at no cost, these days mostly run out of the Office of Advanced Cyberinfrastruture. (The office name is from the early 00s) - https://new.nsf.gov/cise/oac (To conn…

the US already pays for 2+ aws region for cia/dod. why not pay for a region that is only available to researchers?

Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#862

Post by talldayo »

maxdo wrote: post #842
rmbyrro wrote: post #837

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think Russia and China wouldn't be able to steal any closed model for a couple million dollars?

stealing a model and building the entire AI community is a very very big difference : Fine tune, update, Run model without very deep domain knowledge, that's what we receive as an outcome. If you are a software engineer and you steal a model in some close format of Open AI , you will not get lots of benefits even if you understand the format of that model, it's a complex beast by all means. This is a playbook how any…

> think of North Korea, Russia etc level of evilness and what they can do whit that.

To date, I have not seen any "evil" applications of AI, let alone dangerous or even useful ones. If Russia or North Korea get their hands on a modern AI model, the CIA will get their "Red Mercury" call: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_mercury

Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#863

Post by boringg »

jstummbillig wrote: post #658
boringg wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI might cannabalize a lot of first gen AI businesses.

What Meta is doing is borderline market distortion. It's not that they have figured out some magic sauce they are happy to share. They are just deciding to burn brute force money that they made elsewhere and give their stuff away below cost, first of all because they can.

To be fair MSFT investments with credits into OpenAI is also almost market distortion. All the investments done with credits posing as dollars has made the VC investment world very chaotic in the AI space. No real money changing hands and the revenue on the books of MSFT and AMAZON is low quality revenue. Those companies AI moves are overvalued.

Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#864

Post by shkkmo »

xvector wrote: post #646
Zuiii wrote: post #644

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humanity is so fortunate this "guardrails" mentality didn't catch on when we started publishing books. While too close for comfort, we got twice lucky that computing wasn't hampered by this mentality either. This time, humanity narrowly averted complete disaster thanks to the huge efforts and resources of a small number of people. I wonder if we are witnessing humanity's the end of open knowledge and compute (at leas…

[flagged]

The EU hasn't made it hard to release models (yet). The EU has made it hard to train models on EU data. Meta has responded by blocking access to the models trained on non-EU data as a form of leverage/retribution. This is explained by your own reference.

Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#865

Post by talldayo »

meroes wrote: post #517
warkdarrior wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds fantastic. If they make the Meta headset easy to wear and somewhat fashionable (closer to eyeglass than to a motorcycle helmet), I'd take it everywhere and record everything. Give me a retrospective search and conferences/meetings will be so much easier (I am terrible with names).

I wouldn’t even say hi alone my name to someone wearing a Meta headset out in public. And if facial recognition becomes that common for wearers, most of the population is going to adorn something to prevent that. And if it’s at work, I’m not working there and I have to think many would agree. Coworkers don’t and wouldn’t tolerate coworkers taking videos or pictures of them.

Of course, no Hacker News thread is complete without the "I would never shake hands with an Android user" guy who just has to virtue signal.

> And if facial recognition becomes that common for wearers, most of the population is going to adorn something to prevent that

My brother in Christ, you sincerely underestimate how much "most of the population" gives a shit. Most people are being tracked by Google Maps or FindMy, are triangulated with cell towers that know their exact coordinates, and willingly use social media that profiles them individually. The population doesn't even try in the slightest to resist any of it.

Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#866

Post by talldayo »

xvector wrote: post #654
meroes wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn’t even say hi alone my name to someone wearing a Meta headset out in public. And if facial recognition becomes that common for wearers, most of the population is going to adorn something to prevent that. And if it’s at work, I’m not working there and I have to think many would agree. Coworkers don’t and wouldn’t tolerate coworkers taking videos or pictures of them.

[flagged]

> a privacy-aware secure LLM

Funniest thing I've heard all month.

Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#867

Post by abss »

Interesting, but we have to consider this information with skepticism since it comes from Meta. Additionally, merely open-sourcing models is insufficient; the training data must also be accessible to verify the outcomes. Furthermore, tools and applications must be freely deployable and capable of storing and sharing data under our personal control. Self-promotion: We have initiated experiments for an AI-based operating system, check AssistOS.org. We recently received a European research grant to support the improvement of AssistOS components. Contact us if you find our work interesting, wish to contribute, conduct research with us, or want to build an application for AssistOS.

Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#868

Post by tim333 »

boringg wrote: post #592
Havoc wrote: post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>locked into their system There are going to be loads of providers for these open models. Openrouter already has 3 providers for the new 405B model within hours.

Maybe for the time being. I don't see how else they monetize the incredible amount the spent on the models without forcing people to lock into models or benefits or something else. It's not going to stay like this I can assure you that :).

Meta will make money like it has in the past by having data about users and advertising to them. Commoditizing AI helps them keep at that.

See Joel on Software "Smart companies try to commoditize their products’ complements" https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2002/06/12/strategy-letter-v/

Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#869

Post by verdverm »

piperswe wrote: post #625
verdverm wrote: post #622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Analogies are always going to fall short. With LLM weights, you can modify them (quant, fine-tuning) to get something different, which is not something you do with compiled binaries. There are ample areas for collaboration even without being able to reproduce from scratch, which takes $X Millions of dollars, also something that a typical binary does not have as a feature.

You can absolutely modify compiled binaries to get something different. That's how lots of video game modding and ROM hacks work.

I considered adding "normally" to the binary modifications expecting a response like this. The concepts are still worlds apart

Weights aren't really a binary in the same sense that a compiler produces, they lack instructions and are more just a bunch of floating point values. Nor can you run model weights without separate code to interpret them correctly. In this sense, they are more like a JPEG or 3d model

Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#870

Post by Retric »

PostOnce wrote: post #732
alephnerd wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The DoE has also been a fairly active purchaser of GPUs for almost two decades now thanks to the Exascale Computing Project [0] and other predecessor projects. The DoE helped subsidize development of Kepler, Maxwell, Pascal, etc along with the underlying stack like NVLink, NGC, CUDA, etc either via purchases or allowing grants to be commercialized by Nvidia. They also played matchmaker by helping connect private sect…

The DoE subsidized the development of GPUs, but so did Bitcoin. But before that, it was video games, like quake. Nvidia wouldn't be viable if not for games. But before that, graphics research was subsidized by the DoD, back when visualizing things in 3D cost serious money. It's funny how technology advances.

It was really Ethereum / Alt coins not Bitcoin that caused the GPU demand in 2021.

Bitcoin moved to FPGAs/ASIC very quickly because dedicated hardware was vastly more efficient they were only viable from Oct 2010. By 2013 when ASIC’s came online GPU’s only made sense if someone else was paying for both the hardware and electricity.

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