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10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

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Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#861

Post by thiagoharry »

Aunche wrote: post #827
mfru wrote: post #760

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> After spending a couple weeks in Cuba it’s not hard to see why. Which is the consequence of being sanctioned into oblivion for decades by the global hegemon, much to the dislike of the entire rest of the world.

The US has been the the only major country sanctioning Cuba for a decade and a half, but the economy has only gotten worse. Sanctions may explain why they has lagged behind in tech. It doesn't explain why Cuba needs to import 70-80% of their food despite being a fertile tropical paradise. https://www.wfpusa.org/countries/cuba/#:~:text=Cuba%20import... .

> The US has been the the only major country sanctioning Cuba for a decade and a half

Which is enough, as the US controls the emission of dollars, have monopolies over several technologies and, as it extends the sanctions even to the ships that trade in Cuba, disallowing them to enter in US, on practice it difficult trades between Cuba and any other country.

> It doesn't explain why Cuba needs to import 70-80% of their food despite being a fertile tropical paradise.

Modern agriculture depends on machines and fertilizers. And if you go without modern technology, climate change and shortages of water can be an even greater blow to your production. You will produce food, but will be susceptible to famine crisis, as were all countries before sufficient technological development.

Moreover, Cuba is also not an agrarian country. The urban population is greater than the rural, like in any modern country. Remember that societies without much technology had to have a much greater part of population in rural areas instead of cities to be self-sufficient in food.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#862

Post by easytiger »

mfru wrote: post #760
mattmaroon wrote: post #730

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn’t brain drain imply the smarter people are moving? I’m not sure that’s what’s happening here. I think it’s anyone who can get out. When I was in Havana our AirBnB was next to the Spanish embassy. There was a long line every morning of potential emigres waiting for their turn. (I have no idea how the process works when they get to the front of the line, I just was told they were trying to get out of the country…

> After spending a couple weeks in Cuba it’s not hard to see why. Which is the consequence of being sanctioned into oblivion for decades by the global hegemon, much to the dislike of the entire rest of the world.

Go to Cuba, you'll see why that take is absolutely silly.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#863

Post by kgwgk »

thiagoharry wrote: post #856
throwawayq3423 wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> most of the rest of the world has fine relations with Cuba Most of the rest of the world didn't get Soviet nuclear missiles pointed at them by Cuba.

You know that this was a response for american missiles being placed on Turkey, right? By your comment, I assume that you also agree with Russia, when they criticize NATO expansion around their borders, right?

By your comment, I assume that you don't see a difference between "not having a commercial relationship with a country" and "invading and annexing a country".

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#864

Post by NalNezumi »

twixfel wrote: post #702
wwtrv wrote: post #635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And then, once again, Europe blames the groups it refuses to accept. Can you explain in what way did this manifest in Sweden for instance? Or have any data/evidence besides some semi-vague claims about antisemitism and some immutable characteristics of European societies (which are hardly monolithic to begin with). It's not that I even necessarily disagree with what you're saying but unfortunately your comment is 8…

I am a British immigrant in Germany and I can vouch for how impossible it is to integrate into these northern European societies, if the rest are anything like Germany. I tick all the boxes of what German boomers would want in a "Good Immigrant" (white, educated, from western Europe, speaks German, good job), but it doesn't help. I think overall Germans, deep down, don't really want us here. We are here to pay for th…

While being an exchange student in Asia I met an Austrian girl studying in Germany. Her best friend was Iranian-German, born and raised in Germany. When they both tried to apply for renting places close to Uni, several times her Iranian-German friend was ignored by the land lords.

Even though the Austrian girl had heavy accent and technically being the migrant, her "germanic" name and white face gave her access to the most basic thing:housing; something a German born Iranian (studying engineering, well educated and mannered), will struggle to have. One of the landlord she met, an old lady, even explicitly said she was happy "a German" applied and she felt she would take care of the place better.

Similar discrimination exist in Japan, where I lived. All my European expat friends complained about how they struggle getting apartments because landlord silently decline based on their foreigner name.

Very few of them even want to BELIEVE the above Austrian girls story. The common reply is always questioning the story. Maybe some other reason, it's an anecdote, how can she be sure. (when the Austrian girl tell her German friends same questioning occur)

At the core of it the unfriendliness of northern Europe + Germany is a double punch: you're often silently discriminated, and when you try to voice it, you're often gaslighted.

At least in USA or other English speaking places those voices are allowed to be voiced, without condemnation (people will debate it, but we won't even get there for places like Germany or Sweden )

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#865

Post by altvali »

thiagoharry wrote: post #861
Aunche wrote: post #827

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has been the the only major country sanctioning Cuba for a decade and a half, but the economy has only gotten worse. Sanctions may explain why they has lagged behind in tech. It doesn't explain why Cuba needs to import 70-80% of their food despite being a fertile tropical paradise. https://www.wfpusa.org/countries/cuba/#:~:text=Cuba%20import... .

> The US has been the the only major country sanctioning Cuba for a decade and a half Which is enough, as the US controls the emission of dollars, have monopolies over several technologies and, as it extends the sanctions even to the ships that trade in Cuba, disallowing them to enter in US, on practice it difficult trades between Cuba and any other country. > It doesn't explain why Cuba needs to import 70-80% of the…

I'm not educated on the subject. Why can't Cuba import the fertilizer and build the machines? There are open source blueprints, like the Global Village Construction Set.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#866

Post by ajmurmann »

seydor wrote: post #729

In southern europe we call this "Brain drain". It's a global phenomenon it seems, freedom of movement leads to contentration of productive forces to a few global cities, while the rest of the planet is increasingly deserted

Frequently the country people are leaving also benefits. Many emigrants send money back to family. Some amount of emigrants moves back and bring what they learned with them. I've read the argument by Bryan Kaplan that this is a big factor why Puerto Rico is doing better than most of the island surrounding it.

Of course Cuba being Cuba makes all these benefits harder or undesirable.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#867

Post by kwere »

switch007 wrote: post #795
sensanaty wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're low paying because (often illegal) immigrants from other countries either A) are happy to put up with what is a luxurious salary for back home, but barely liveable locally Or B) don't have a choice once they're in, since they practically become indentured servants In the Netherlands, no dutchie wants to work construction for example, because immigrants from Eastern Europe often take under-the-table deals wher…

> since they practically become indentured servants Yup. A lot the cheap fruit + veg in the EU is thanks to back-breaking work by immigrants and the farm owners breaching their human and labour rights.. Who do you think is picking the fruit in the massive green house of southern spain? Not well-paid Spaniards I'll tell you - https://www.ethicalconsumer.org/ethicalcampaigns/agricultura...

anecdotally, as an Italian i worked summer jobs in the rural side few years ago being paid 4$ an hour off the table, and it was considered a very good pay. I hear all the time of illegal migrants being paid 2/3 $ an hour without any contract

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#868

Post by ChumpGPT »

mfru wrote: post #760
mattmaroon wrote: post #730

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn’t brain drain imply the smarter people are moving? I’m not sure that’s what’s happening here. I think it’s anyone who can get out. When I was in Havana our AirBnB was next to the Spanish embassy. There was a long line every morning of potential emigres waiting for their turn. (I have no idea how the process works when they get to the front of the line, I just was told they were trying to get out of the country…

> After spending a couple weeks in Cuba it’s not hard to see why. Which is the consequence of being sanctioned into oblivion for decades by the global hegemon, much to the dislike of the entire rest of the world.

[flagged]

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#869

Post by narag »

pembrook wrote: post #852
seydor wrote: post #729

In southern europe we call this "Brain drain". It's a global phenomenon it seems, freedom of movement leads to contentration of productive forces to a few global cities, while the rest of the planet is increasingly deserted

What's happening in Cuba has no resemblance to what happens in Southern Europe. In Southern Europe, talent leaves for better job opportunities and higher salary. In Cuba, people are literally fleeing to achieve basic human rights and 21st century quality of life. I'm not sure if you've been to Cuba before, but having visited in the late 2010s, it's a caricature of life in a communist dictatorship. Internet wasn't all…

Whatever the reason, it's not so far fetched to assume the brightest are the first to leave. Or maybe the bravest, the most confident... I don't know. But better anyway.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#870

Post by kgwgk »

nso wrote: post #845
noduerme wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> various European nations [...] some immigrant groups American Jew here, who spent years living in France and Spain. I've heard the same polite euphemisms refering to Arabs and Gypsies from the mouths of members of the Front National. You know, before 1945 it was said in Europe that Jews weren't able to integrate fully with the host society. One might ask: Was that the Jews' fault? Or the host society's fault? It's…

You may not know this, but the word Gypsy is considered an insult by the people you reference to. It's like the N-word for black people. The preferred name is Romani.

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