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I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

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Re: I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

#861

Post by gitaarik »

whoknowsidont wrote: post #860
gitaarik wrote: post #803

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, hopefulness is much better and productive than hopelessness. As long as it's done in a realistic way, not denying the facts, not cherry picking data, etc. Hopeful people can accomplish a lot more than hopeless people.

>hopefulness is much better and productive than hopelessness. Being pragmatic is not hopelessness. You have to admit what the problems are, and the book does not do that.

In what way is the book not admit the problems? Like the previous commenter said, it's full of data supporting it's claims. I'm truly interested in your arguments, because I just got this book.

Re: I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

#862

Post by singingfish »

textbookrental wrote: post #529
singingfish wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% of people who mistake correlation for causation end up dead.

All the climate modelling is based on correlation, so I thought that's what we were doing. Is there another approach we should be taking?

Mate, it's not, it's based on extraordinarily well understood theories around the how chemical bonds and the electromagnetic spectrum work. That is the theory behind the mechanism for anthropogenic climate change is based on exactly the same science that allows big chunks of the infrastructure of civilisation to work - that is, chemistry, quantum physics and arithmetic/accountancy.

Re: I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

#863

Post by perlgeek »

mgaunard wrote: post #724
perlgeek wrote: post #583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you have partial control. You can vote for candidates that take climate change seriously. You can decide to buy or lease an EV instead of an ICE one. You can raise the bar for when you book a flight. And so on...

It's not up to individuals to fix it. Your impact is nothing. Cars matter very little in the big picture as well -- it's a distraction to blame the little people. The vast majority of pollution is caused by industrial processes. The fix here is simple: regulate and enforce the regulation. The main polluting countries are: the USA: too afraid to do anything in case it affects their economy, political caste too corrupt…

> It's not up to individuals to fix it.

On the one hand, that sounds true.

On the other hand, everybody who acts is an individual. States and countries don't act on their own, they are driven by acts of individuals.

So, what's the right framing? Maybe that we need society-level changes, driven by individuals.

Re: I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

#864

Post by sobani »

AdrianB1 wrote: post #671
trimethylpurine wrote: post #661

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gas was just under $4 a liter every time I've been to Europe. That's about $16/gallon. People were driving to work, and sitting in traffic, just like they do in the US.

Gas was never above $2 per liter in Europe, you are mistaken. The highest gas price I've ever seen was close to $2 per liter, a bit below (~1.90, maybe).

Weighted average prices up to €2.40: https://brandstofdata.nl/brandstof/benzine/2022

Re: I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

#865

Post by t0bia_s »

defrost wrote: post #856
t0bia_s wrote: post #827

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those data from measured ocean temperature needs to be readjusted: Before about 1940, the most common method for measuring sea surface temperature was to throw a bucket attached to a rope overboard from a ship, haul it back up, and read the water temperature. The method was far from perfect. Depending on the air temperature, the water temperature could change as the bucket was pulled from the water. (1) In the late 1…

You've provided links to things the vast bulk of people in earth sciences, particularly climatic related earth and atmospherics are already well aware of. Yet they, in near majority, still stand behind the broad predictions of future climate change - even being aware of the work of Smale and Lorenz .. perhaps it's that 40+ year old understanding of stability, robustness, and the Dzhanibekov effect in which the broad…

Problem is that speed is unknown variable that change with our knowledge. Yet, we make conclusions, over 50 years, that was and still are false.

From history we know, how terrified population is easier to manipulate by those who offer easy solutions.

Re: I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

#866

Post by defrost »

t0bia_s wrote: post #865
defrost wrote: post #856

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've provided links to things the vast bulk of people in earth sciences, particularly climatic related earth and atmospherics are already well aware of. Yet they, in near majority, still stand behind the broad predictions of future climate change - even being aware of the work of Smale and Lorenz .. perhaps it's that 40+ year old understanding of stability, robustness, and the Dzhanibekov effect in which the broad…

Problem is that speed is unknown variable that change with our knowledge. Yet, we make conclusions, over 50 years, that was and still are false. From history we know, how terrified population is easier to manipulate by those who offer easy solutions.

You're not making a STEM case that the AGW argument is flawed.

The physics is sound. The grasp of physics many dissenters have is not.

Re: I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

#867

Post by Shocka1 »

ianai wrote: post #649
zug_zug wrote: post #637

Just a contextual note -- one thing Sabine says is: AI won't help because we know the exact solution, we just aren't willing to do it. Presumably she's referring to her first proposal -- a carbon tax. It's my understanding that there's nearly consensus among economists that a carbon tax is the most efficient solution to global warming, but political consensus that it would never happen when framed as a tax. If you do…

It's finding a way to input the external costs of consumption of emissive products into their final price(s). In reality, a gallon of gas causes significantly more damage than the price paid at the pump - it was like $16/gallon when I saw a figure for it around 2010. Imagine how much differently a world with $20/gallon gas would look. There'd probably be massive pressures from all corners to move away from oil.

If gas was magically $16 a gallon tomorrow, it would amplify inflation. Markets and their workers would demand wage increases, which would of course trickle to everything else.

And yes, imagine what this would look like at $20 a gallon :/

Re: I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

#868

Post by retwertett »

okr wrote: post #153
yungporko wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i don't think overpopulation is the problem, but maybe it's a symptom. the problem is we've forced our way up to an unrealistically high standard of living which is completely unsustainable, and now we're trapped in an inescapable death spiral because nobody wants to go back. people aren't willing to stop paying for conveniences because they're cheaply available, corporations aren't willing to stop selling them becau…

Yea, yea, people making their life better is now the reason. We must all live in poverty, because that is the natural state, where we obey the needs of nature. Nature is healing!! And for that we need to abandon demoncracy. And the leader should be who? Of course you, because only you know the solution! Cheeky ;)

This is a bad faith take, and against the rules.

Re: I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

#869

Post by jjjjj55555 »

K0nserv wrote: post #849
jjjjj55555 wrote: post #844

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been hearing for over a decade that carbon taxes are the solution. I've also been hearing that Republicans are standing in the way of this solution. What I've never heard is an explanation of why some sensible, well-run scandinavian country hasn't already implemented this and brought their emissions down to zero. If there are simple solutions to this problem then why hasn't some country already implemented them?

Sweden has had a carbon tax since 1991 and has almost halved co2 emissions since. Sources: https://ourworldindata.org/co2/country/sweden https://government.se/government-policy/swedens-carbon-tax/s...

The US has dropped them 25% over the same time period, so Sweden has done 25 percentage points better. That's less than a 1% compounded drop for those 35 years, and that's assuming that all of the delta was attributable to carbon taxes. That's not a very convincing case.

Re: I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

#870

Post by michaelcampbell »

Shocka1 wrote: post #867
ianai wrote: post #649

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's finding a way to input the external costs of consumption of emissive products into their final price(s). In reality, a gallon of gas causes significantly more damage than the price paid at the pump - it was like $16/gallon when I saw a figure for it around 2010. Imagine how much differently a world with $20/gallon gas would look. There'd probably be massive pressures from all corners to move away from oil.

If gas was magically $16 a gallon tomorrow, it would amplify inflation. Markets and their workers would demand wage increases, which would of course trickle to everything else. And yes, imagine what this would look like at $20 a gallon :/

There's a fascinating book that explores this exact thing, in $1/gal increments. Worth reading.
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