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The pro-Israel information war
861–870 of 1001 posts
Re: The pro-Israel information war
#862Why is America so fixated on Israel? Groups like AIPAC and the Israeli lobby seem to be steering U.S. policies in ways that don't necessarily benefit the U.S., while potentially harming its interests. Here's what's at stake: This alliance seems to be turning about two billion people and dozens of muslim-majority nations against America, driving them towards alliances with countries like China. American taxpayer money…
It happens because there is a $3B annual funding of Israel (which doesn't require a vote!!) which is for weapons-only - consequently most of the funding comes back into the US through defense contractors and lobbying groups like AIPAC. (typical client-state kind of setup which is described more thoroughly in Confessions of an Economic Hitman - freely available on the internet) These lobbies then reach out to every le…
> It happens because there is a $3B annual funding of Israel (which doesn't require a vote!!) which is for weapons-only - consequently most of the funding comes back into the US through defense contractors and lobbying groups like AIPAC
I remember reading a column in an English-language Israeli newspaper (probably Haaretz) – sorry I can't find it now – arguing that US defence funding actually hurt Israel. It isn't that much money in the grand scheme of things (around 0.6% of Israel's GDP) – from a purely financial perspective, Israel could survive fine without it. It comes with all these strings attached, which are basically designed to keep the IDF dependent on the US defense industry, and discourage Israel from developing indigenous replacements for various US military technologies. The greater reliance on US technology, instead of indigenous Israeli replacements, holds back Israel's defense industry, causes Israel to lose out on defense export opportunities (you can't export military technologies you haven't developed), reduces Israel's national sovereignty, and gives the US leverage to use to control the Israeli government (if the US doesn't like some Israeli plan, it will send behind-closed-door threats to delay military supplies that the IDF is dependent upon.) It also sustains a talking point which opponents of Israel can reliably call upon.
The column said that the defenders of this arrangement within the Israeli establishment concede that many of these drawbacks are real, but argue that they are outweighed by the arrangement's biggest benefit – it sends a signal to neighbouring countries that "the US has Israel's back".
> The only difference for Israel vs. other client states like Egypt, Japan, etc is the lack of vote required to keep funding going to Israel.
I think there is another big difference – many Americans (both Jewish and Christian) have an emotional attachment to the US alliance with Israel, which transcends whatever its practical benefits might be; far fewer Americans feel that way about the US alliance with Egypt or Japan.
Re: The pro-Israel information war
#863Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have nothing to add here, other than to thank you for expressing this so cogently. It’s not always “right” to measure just action in terms of lives saved or lost, but it’s hard for me (and so many other American Jews) to see anything right or just about 10 dead Palestinians for every dead Israeli.
There has never been a war in history where one side stops because they killed enough people. War ends when the enemy surrenders. The Japanese killed a few dozen civilians in Pearl Harbor. America killed 10,000x as many during their bombings of Japan. Had they not surrendered, they likely would have killed an order of magnitude more. The only alternative would have been for the US to completely blockade Japan indefin…
Japanese did enough evil through Asia during WW2 to more than deserve that.
Re: The pro-Israel information war
#864Pro-Palestinian views outrank Pro-Israeli online by around 36 to 1 on TikTok and 8 to 1 on other online platforms. https://twitter.com/antgoldbloom/status/1721561226151612602 If anything the skew within the platforms is to prioritize pro-palestinian views https://twitter.com/committeeonccp/status/173279243496103143... It also seems like these platforms create (rather than support) anti-Israeli views: https://twitter.…
Interestingly enough, Israel has a stranglehold on r/worldnews. You'd be hard pressed to find any news or content there that doesn't praise Israel in their slaughter of the Palestinians.
/r/worldnews kind of exists as a more right-leaning sub considering reddit's general leftist (in the context of American politics).
Re: The pro-Israel information war
#865"That’s where the efforts of J-Ventures’ hasbara WhatsApp group come in. The group, which also includes attorneys and individuals affiliated with the influential American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), has tirelessly worked to fire employees and punish activists for expressing pro-Palestinian views." Is that even legal under US law? Apparently it is in some states. Federal law does not, apparently, prohibit…
AIPAC itself is a result of the President Eisenhower and later Robert F Kennedy (DOJ) demanding the American Zionist Council (AZC) register as foreign agents. Because of this, the AZC rebranded to AIPAC with the same leadership and the issue seemed to have fell off the high priority political radar since. Incidentally, the founder of AIPAC, Isaiah Kenen registered twice with the U.S. Department of Justice under the F…
Two questions:
1. Does AIPAC's use of dual-citizens (American-Israelis) allow it to circumvent the Foreign Agent Registration Act?
2. Is there any other analog to AIPAC operating in the United States for a foreign nation?
Re: The pro-Israel information war
#866Earlier quoted context omitted.
With Ukraine there’s a clear victim and clear aggressor. Textbook good vs evil.
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No religious flamewar please.
Re: The pro-Israel information war
#867Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think that parent is suggesting that platforms are actively prioritising one over the other. I think they are saying that the composition of users of these apps skews one way rather than the other due to pre existing stances, and the fact that the apps are not available in some markets. As a result, certain views are prioritised as a byproduct of the fact that all modern social media apps have an algorithm th…
The majority of the world is against Israel's occupation of Palestine, a stance that is reflected in numerous UN General Assembly votes. Holding a pro-Israel position in this context represents a very US centric view, which is not similarly echoed in the rest of the world.
Last month UN appointed Iran to chair and guide its annual UNHRC (human rights council) meeting.
The aforementioned organization in no way represents “the majority of the world” or “the rest of the world”; it makes a joke out of the values of freedom and human rights.
Re: The pro-Israel information war
#868Earlier quoted context omitted.
Here is a long list of Israeli politicians and military officers who have declared their intent to massacre civilians: - Israeli Prime Minister (!!) Benjamin Netanyahu: "You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible. And we do remember." [1] - IDF spokesman Daniel Hagari: "we're focused on what causes maximum damage" [2] - Israeli defense Minister Yoav Gallant: "I have ordered a complete siege on…
Hagari was not speaking about massacring civilians. He was talking about damage to Hamas/military targets. He did say that Israel is biased towards more damage vs. accuracy. This is very propaganda. I've been following the conflict pretty closely and I speak Hebrew. The parent is correct, there is and was no order to massacre civilians. It's probably safe to say that protecting Palestinian civilians is not Israel's m…
Right. So the Israeli government hands out weapons to settlers [1], the IDF is bombing as they do, treating people as they do [2], on Israeli TV they openly admit that the goal of destroying civilian infrastructure is to make Gaza "unlivable] [3], the IDF proudly poses for pictures as they do it [4] -- yet you split hairs and call it "very propaganda"? Wow.
That's like saying the Nazis just wanted Jews "gone", gassing them wasn't a priority.
Here is a German phrase you must learn:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vorauseilender_Gehorsam
People murder -- to not mince words, some people act and think like Nazis, as Yeshayahu Leibowitz so very correctly pointed out -- and they know they'll get away with it. There are rarely "explicit explicit" orders, the general atmosphere, the words and deeds you saw others get away with, is enough.
[1] https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231024-security-minister...
[2] https://twitter.com/muhammadshehad2/status/17327731468585127...
[3] https://twitter.com/NimerSultany/status/1731736295666282707
[4] https://twitter.com/muhammadshehad2/status/17330661183302657...
Re: The pro-Israel information war
#869It became clear very quickly this October that the whole issue of the conflict got a very different (more censorious) treatment here on HN than around the world.
That was such a depressing and infuriating experience for me that it turned watching the censorship play out into my main interest in HN for a few weeks, and eventually turned me off of the site altogether.
I understand some of the tensions at play for moderators here and the kind of online space they want to facilitate, and the work that controversial topics put on small moderation teams. But it still ultimately damaged my relationship with this site and broke my habit of frequently using it. I can't be the only one.
It's no wonder that when the moderation team finally decided that a post closely relating to this conflict deserves to remain on the front page, it shot up into the thousands of comments. I appreciate this post's presence here, and I hope the discussion stays manageable.
I wonder how many people will be doxxed for their comments here on this very post, just like Carey in the OP.
Re: The pro-Israel information war
#870Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hamas has been an assset for the Israeli right because it helps prevent a two state solution. The goal is really to weaken the Palestinian Authority. In recent years most of Hamas' crimes were against Palestinians and nobody cared. Forcing this dichotomy today is certainly a strategy but I don't think that was really a strategy pre-Oct 7th. I.e. I don't recall ever Israel trying to justify settler violence against Pa…
> Jews and Arabs living side by side in the same country as equal citizens. Except that Israel has Arabs already, living side by side with the Jews there. Palestinians have rejected that.
Israel won’t allow the right of return for Palestinians from the world. Be real here.