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Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

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Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#861

My biggest concern with Home Schooling is you literally have someone not qualified as a teacher, as in probably knows nothing of the subject and may not even have an education themselves, teaching the children. Obviously this isn't all cases, and some traditional school teachers are questionable at best, but at least traditional teachers had to at least TRY to be subject matter experts before teaching in a traditiona…

>> the kids will only ever be as smart as their teachers and these 'teachers' (ie parents) are not the brightest.

I can feel your arrogance and contempt from here, suffice to say that’s not how “smart” works and it’s certainly not how education works. Sounds like you could benefit from some extra home schooling yourself.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#862
post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A school-like environment that doesn't indoctrinate their children in values that the parents disagree with, which is what would happen if their children went to public schools.

Sorry, but the parents' "values" are almost always some crackpot nonsense. Public schools at least aim for a measure of neutrality, beyond which children can develop their own ideas. It's just strange to me that people are so intent on having their children mirror their own ideas. Have some humility, entertain the idea that you yourself may be wrong about everything, and let the kids figure out what they think for th…

> Public schools at least aim for a measure of neutrality

i'm sorry, but surely you're joking? no schooling - especially public schools of today - is aiming for neutrality. neutrality is a fiction, and saying it is possible is lifting up something vacuous as the standard.

schooling - especially schooling - is always done with a worldview or, if you like, an agenda. read up on the history of schooling. look up a bit on the history of education. the parents know this, the leaders know this, and i hope you'll be honest with yourself for a second and agree also.

this idea of "schooling is neutral, we will sit above everything being taught as an impartial observer and present ideas without taking part or judging" is laughably foolish and impossible. teaching that it is possible is... well at least showing the hand.

> you yourself may be wrong...let the kids figure out what they think

your advice to "show some humility" would be better received if this wasn't such an unloving proposal crouched in an argument against an arrogant straw man. should children be micromanaged, told always what to do and think? that also is unloving. but to let them figure it out for themselves? surely you can't mean something so cruel as to tell them to just trust their individual judgements, rest of the culture (and authorities and parents) be damned. read your history, please, that is the short path to horrors not the way to the chosen land.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#863

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had someone (childless i might add) try to make me feel guilty for pulling my kids out of a school circling the drain and into a high performing one in the name of diversity. I told them, when the time comes, if they want to sacrifice their child on that altar then it's their decision but don't ask me to sacrifice mine.

Kind of wild and weirdly refreshing to finally see the "everyone is in it for themselves and their own" attitude on fully overt display in this article's comments. Usually it's masked behind talk of "freedom" and "individuality," but here, it's raw and out there in the open! FWIW I probably could afford to send my kid to a better private school or alternate-schooling group, withdrawing from the community and not-so-g…

You sound like a terrible parent.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#864

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation needed. Beyond studies by the National Home Education Research Institute, that is. The three leading studies by homeschooling advocates looked at "homeschooled students who went to college" and how they did at school versus public schooled students at college, and ignored the fact that the percentage of homeschooled students who went to college was much smaller (why?) than for public schools.

My guess for the college admission situation is at least partially because, until recently, a lot of public and private colleges essentially refused to recognize homeschooling as a way to get an education, so your chance of getting admitted was almost zero at a ton of schools. This lead a lot of people (myself included) to essentially join something that's legally an accredited private school, but functionally homesc…

For reference I had to take several SAT subject tests to get into college ~20 years ago, the homeschooling co-op I was a part of did get accredited while I was attending so I think those tests weren't a requirement for other kids who went through an accredited co-op.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#865

My biggest concern with Home Schooling is you literally have someone not qualified as a teacher, as in probably knows nothing of the subject and may not even have an education themselves, teaching the children. Obviously this isn't all cases, and some traditional school teachers are questionable at best, but at least traditional teachers had to at least TRY to be subject matter experts before teaching in a traditiona…

For some reason there's not a lot of academic interest in homeschool outcomes, so there's not much data out there. But the data that is out there shows why parents who turn to homeschooling almost never turn back.

And I've never met a homeschooled kid who didn't seem weird. And by weird, I mean able to easily discuss complex topics with adults, showing not only competent conversation skills, but broad knowledge of the world and how it works.

https://www.nheri.org/research-facts-on-homeschooling/

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#866

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Underrated viewpoint. Public schools are the only option for most people. Most people don’t have the financial ability to spend their time teaching their kids when they’re already working as much as they can to make ends meet. Heck, for a huge segment of the population, public school is the only place where their kids can even get a decent meal. If every parent that does have the time to invest in their child’s futur…

There are some crappy parents out there, or parents just doing the best they can after being delt a crappy hand. Those parents who can't find the time / motivation to spend some time doing learning activities with their kids really shouldn't have applied for the job of parent in the first place. If more parents took ultimate responsibility for their kids learning outcomes teachers would be under less pressure, and wo…

> just doing the best they can after being delt a crappy hand

> really shouldn't have applied for the job of parent in the first place

Yeah, I mean if you plan on getting laid off from your career some day and have to work two jobs to make ends meet, you really shouldn't have kids. Having kids should only be reserved for people who plan on having no unforeseen issues ever come up in their life, am I right?

Parents should just take responsibility and make sure that they don't ever come across hard times. See also: the poor are just lazy.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#867
Seems apropos to mention the works of John Taylor Gatto on the origin of the American public school system and in particular its motivation: social control of the lower classes by the elite of the country. You can find interviews on the web. He was teacher of the year in New York (both city and state) before he retired in disgust at what was being done to young people's minds with the current "schooling" system -- training in regurgitating canned answers, not in critical or original thought -- and then only on approved topics. Why is ignorance of the dollar creation system so widespread if we truly have an educated country -- for example.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#868

My biggest concern with Home Schooling is you literally have someone not qualified as a teacher, as in probably knows nothing of the subject and may not even have an education themselves, teaching the children. Obviously this isn't all cases, and some traditional school teachers are questionable at best, but at least traditional teachers had to at least TRY to be subject matter experts before teaching in a traditiona…

> kids will only ever be as smart as their teachers

Clearly not true. Do you think every genius had teachers who ever also geniuses?

You do not need to be a qualified teacher to teach, and you do not need to teach in order to educate. Teachers need teaching skills to teach classes. That is very difficult but not something home educators need to do.

As for subject matter, parents can arrange access to appropriate resources. It is not usual for parents to teach everything and I think that is a bad approach to home education (the term I prefer, for just this reason).

My two home educated kids have been taught some subjects I know, they have gone to classes a bit, had tutors, done online courses, and done a LOT of self-teaching. I like the last of these because it developing study skills.

They have done well academically. My older daughter got a 9 in Latin GCSE, for example, for which she was entirely self-taught. For those unfamiliar with the UK system that is a top grade in public exams typically done at 16 (although my kids did most of theirs younger - less stressful, less at risk from adverse events, and one of the advantages of HE).

Even for subjects I helped them with, once they reached their teens the help needed was very minimal.

A study in Australia found HE was unusual in that working class kids did better than middle class kids. A study in the US found HE kids whose mothers had not graduated high school did better academically than similar kids who went to school. A study in the UK found HE kids did better after adjusting for factors such as parental education and income.

What I do think is a bad idea (and I suspect it what your friends are doing) is to attempt to replicate school syllabuses and teaching methods at home.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#869

I was home-schooled until high school. Long story short, it was a disaster. I bordered on having no education at all, on top of no socialization. I'm so fortunate I got at least four years of public school. I still think I suffer to this day. For parents who are thinking of home schooling your kids: best of luck to you. If you succeed, maybe your kids will be smarter. If you fail, you could be setting your kids up fo…

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Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#870

My biggest concern with Home Schooling is you literally have someone not qualified as a teacher, as in probably knows nothing of the subject and may not even have an education themselves, teaching the children. Obviously this isn't all cases, and some traditional school teachers are questionable at best, but at least traditional teachers had to at least TRY to be subject matter experts before teaching in a traditiona…

Considering education majors are as a group among the academically poorest performing majors, I think your concerns are unfounded. Consider also the educational fads like three-cueing that actively harmed children.

A few decades ago, most teachers did not have anything beyond high school education. While there are many valid defenses of public schooling, "public school teachers are more qualified" is not one of them, particularly given the miserable performance of many public schools - qualified teachers in 23 Baltimore schools failed to generate a single mathematically proficient student, and Baltimore is not alone. Credentials on their own don't mean anything if there's nothing worthwhile backing them. If anything, they are currently being used for gatekeeping purposes. For example, I have a Master's degree in CS and I was a TA, but if I were inclined to teach a CS at high schools, I have to spend a few thousand dollars and get a pointless certification.

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