The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression • Hacker News Board

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#861

Post by araes » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 8:47 PM UTC

CWuestefeld wrote: post #287

voidwtf wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This can’t be a real, thought out, response. I’m living in Florida. I will agree with you that rent-seeking and increasingly abusive landlords are a huge problem here. However, the largest drivers of pricing out retirees in my anecdotal observations is uncontrolled healthcare, insurance, and food costs. The electric companies have also increased their rates and been allowed to add insane flat infrastructure recovery…

Not disagreeing with your observations, but I'd like to add property taxes, and most specifically, the portion used to support public schools, to your list. Excluding the past year, this is where I've seen the greatest increases in my expenses. And since it's government creating most of this, it's hard to imagine that there's any relief to be found by looking towards government for a solution.

The NW had a case over the last several years, where there was really perverse behavior.

Except for Seattle / Portland, not many companies really invest in the NW. Except all the residential prices just rise and rise. ex: "66% (8331) of residential properties in Post Falls saw a property tax climb between 2019 and 2020. Yet only 6% (71) of commercial properties (6%) experienced an increase".

So when the pandemic was ramping up, all the property tax burden dropped right on top of the homeowners.

Annnnnd: If you don't pay your property taxes, it doesn't matter if you own your house. Title. Everything. Can take it away for a couple years of property taxes. In many states, they don't even have to pay you the sale price difference.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#862

Post by pokerface_86 » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 8:56 PM UTC

IKantRead wrote: post #267

spir wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You only perceive corporate landlords as the greater problem because we're not living in the counterfactual reality where there are millions of new apartments that are inexpensive, tiny, safe, quiet, modern, clean, dignified, and well-located. In pretty much every major city in North America, it is illegal or there is too much red tape to build the affordable housing people actually want. Why is it that living in a t…

> not living in the counterfactual reality where there are millions of new apartments that are inexpensive, tiny, safe, quiet, modern, clean, dignified, and well-located. China serves as this counter factual and it's facing an even larger housing crisis. Massive building of houses lead to many people buying up property for investment reasons and now there is a pretty clear oversupply while plenty of people still stru…

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Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#863

Post by pokerface_86 » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 8:59 PM UTC

carom wrote: post #670

svnt wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is counterfactual in the literal sense. It is entirely possible that there are no real prices below $2k in urban centers because of demand and constrained supply. It is entirely possible that getting below this would result in a return to conditions where people were regularly dying in fires and building collapse. We have plenty of examples of what happens in your fantasy land, you just choose to reason from ideol…

Maybe we keep the fire codes but eliminate parking minimums and lot setbacks. Just a thought.

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Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#864

Post by jononomo » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 9:01 PM UTC

gremlinsinc wrote: post #795

jononomo wrote: post #772

Why can’t we have more boarding houses? 14 people can each get a 220-square-foot room and then share 3 bathrooms, a large kitchen, and a living room. It bothers me that this kind of dwelling is illegal.

it's not illegal, if it were dorms would be illegal, it's just not many want to go this route and it's probably not profitable for developers, there's a number of intentional communities that do this sort of thing or everyone has tiny homes without a kitchen and they maybe share one big kitchen in an out building or something....

Please read up on rooming houses before assuming they are legal and just like college dorms. They are illegal almost everywhere.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rooming_house

Incidentally, 150 years ago rooming houses were something like 30% of the rental market. But because they tend to house low-income people, zoning laws have been put in place to make them illegal. I guess people think it would be better for the poor to live under a bridge somewhere else than in a rooming house in their neighborhood.

By the way, a rooming house is different from someone just renting out a couple extra bedrooms in their house -- those are owner-occupied homes and are therefore not considered rooming houses.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#865

Post by xg15 » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 9:02 PM UTC

wyager wrote: post #268

mcv wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Part of the problem is government regulation. And not just too much regulation, but the wrong kind of regulation, and a lack of regulation in areas that need it. Someone in the article was forced out of her home because her landlord suddenly raised her rent by $500. That shouldn't be legal. Corporations buying up homes in order to drive up prices shouldn't be allowed. Lots of things are allowed that shouldn't be. A…

> her landlord suddenly raised her rent by $500. That shouldn't be legal. GP: "Government regulation is preventing the construction of more housing" You: "So true. For example, we need more regulation that make housing a legally encumbered asset with uniquely constrained and inflexible financial properties" What is your thought process here? Do you think this kind of thing will encourage the provision of more houses?…

Ok, but without regulation, why should any investor be interested in building affordable housing, instead of just selling/renting for the exact same unaffordable prices we currently have?

More construction isn't the ebd goal, (except for developers and investors I guess), if anything, it's a means to an end. The end goal is affordable housing.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#866

Post by rcarr » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 9:06 PM UTC

hotnfresh wrote: post #815

rcarr wrote: post #810

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But isn't the hope that if we get these apps right, then the competence of the leadership and the staff doesn't matter so much anymore, just the drive of the individual student?

We have tools that do awesome for driven individual students. We’ve had them since before computers. The problem is we expect to have a fair amount of success educating students who are not driven, which is a large majority of students. Almost anything works with driven students.

> We have tools that do awesome for driven individual students. We’ve had them since before computers.

If you're referring to books then I disagree. I think the computer opens up a whole new way of teaching that is far more interesting. Maths concepts are far easier to understand with good graphics and animations for example. Stuff like Duolingo is far more engaging than than a Spanish textbook (even if does need work on how it teaches grammar). Even stuff like electronics and computers, you would have been limited by your budget for parts, whereas now you can launch up virtual labs or learn networking in the cloud.

And now these things are available to everyone now, across the globe. If you're a kid in a small town of a few thousands residents, you may not even be guaranteed to have a library, let alone a library that has multiple books on a topic you want to read. Nowadays, you've got all the information you want at your fingertips.

Personally, I think the key to making driven students is to let them study more of what they want to study, within reason. When a kid starts showing a passion for something, let them go down the rabbit hole and let them drop other studies to compensate if necessary. If I remember rightly, the American system of schooling is already a lot better at doing this than the UK system of schooling.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#867

Post by turdprincess » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 9:20 PM UTC

sonotathrowaway wrote: post #310

turdprincess wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious - which individuals benefit from housing values rising? It seems like if you own a home, and it gets more expensive, you have more money on paper, but how do you benefit from that? If you sell your house and buy another, you wont make more money - your profit theoretically wouldn't change. Same with selling and renting if rents are going up as well. Is it primarily then people who invest in real estate outsid…

The current size of the heloc (home equity line of credit) market is around 336 billion dollars.

I’m not sure I buy this - who is looking to max out their HELOC? Of course one good reason to do that is to buy another property, but of course, this again is a chicken or egg problem where no actual gain being made.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#868

Post by sokoloff » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 9:27 PM UTC

turdprincess wrote: post #292

jongjong wrote: post #16

Part of the problem is government regulation. In some places, it's almost impossible to build new houses due to regulations. Some portion of the population wants to see house prices continue to increase and they will vote for politicians who will implement policies which will support that agenda. Of course this happens at the expense of another, also large portion of the population who do not own a house and have to…

Curious - which individuals benefit from housing values rising? It seems like if you own a home, and it gets more expensive, you have more money on paper, but how do you benefit from that? If you sell your house and buy another, you wont make more money - your profit theoretically wouldn't change. Same with selling and renting if rents are going up as well. Is it primarily then people who invest in real estate outsid…

People who are downsizing later in life benefit while alive.

People who move from an expensive area to a lower cost area benefit while alive.

People who intend to leave an inheritance benefit after death (and therefore psychologically while alive).

People who borrow against the property (via a cash-out refinance or HELOC) benefit while alive.

People who sell their individual condos and move in together might benefit from price appreciation (depending on how much more expensive the shared place is).

People who do none of those things but who realize they could downsize or move to a cheaper area if things went sideways benefit from the psychological security aspect.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#869

Post by solumunus » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 9:28 PM UTC

cogman10 wrote: post #565

rmk wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't Boise, ID have an influx of better-off people from the coasts during the Pandemic? If plenty of luxury housing is being built it was likely in response to that. Ultimately those houses will get rented or otherwise occupied, which should free up housing at the lower end. Compare this to places in the Bay Area, where it's not practical to spread out any farther (no good public transport because of a dozen or mor…

> Didn't Boise, ID have an influx of better-off people from the coasts during the Pandemic? Yup > What's better? Some housing being built or none at all? Loads of housing is getting built but what we've not seen is subsequent drops in housing prices (the opposite in fact). This speaks to problems beyond a housing shortage. Who knows, maybe in 10 years that will reverse and the market will correct back to pre-pandemic…

> Loads of housing is getting built

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#870

Post by rthomas6 » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 9:31 PM UTC

gremlinsinc wrote: post #789

rthomas6 wrote: post #354

I was holding out on joining the wave of doomerism that pervades everyone's mindset so thoroughly nowadays, but I'm starting to be won over. Between economic things like this and the apparent infeasibility of carbon capture (meaning a likely 3+ degree C increase in global temperature (and the resulting catastrophic effects that not even activists talk about because the scenario is too bleak to imagine)), I am startin…

reality isn't doomerism, really just is.... reality. Those who call it doomerism live near a river called denial, apparently it's a pretty popular place these days. They either don't want to think about it, or they think a man is going to descend from the heavens and save them, I wouldn't count on that happening. There's room for hope we can science our way out or at least ai might be able to find solutions we can't…

Maybe. I think we're going to buy time with geoengineering, but it won't solve everything or actually fix any core issues.