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Had a call with Reddit to discuss pricing

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Re: Had a call with Reddit to discuss pricing

#861

Post by alwayslikethis »

Fnoord wrote: post #848
dacryn wrote: post #846

Is it so unreasonable to charge 12k for 50mln requests? I don't know. Is it so unreasonable to charge 20m/year to a super popular iOS app? I don't know. Does apollo make money from this? Do they take advertisement income? But I imagine, if you are the most popular app, on the most popular mobile platform, of a very popular site like Reddit, there has to be a lot of money floating around no? They definitely have incom…

That's not how the deal works though. The deal with WWW is as follows: You provide a website on the server. The client downloads it and decides how to render it. An API is going to be more efficient than HTML plus all the bells and whistles. But if you don't provide a reasonable API we go back to the stone age of HTML clients which parse and scrape. It is going to be more nuisance for client and server. Load is more…

We are at this inflection point where it is becoming practical to defeat any captcha services and extract information by screenshots with the help of AI. It is going to be a losing battle for the gatekeepers, as coming up with all the defenses and serving it is going to cost them more than keeping the API open. I hope they lose everything so future platform controllers won't repeat this mistake.

Re: Had a call with Reddit to discuss pricing

#862

Post by emptyfile »

typeofhuman wrote: post #754

RIF is Fun is also going away because of this. https://www.reddit.com/r/redditisfun/comments/13wxepd/rif_de... It's the only reason I use reddit and I will definitely not use the site anymore if this app goes away. Probably a good thing...

[dead]

Re: Had a call with Reddit to discuss pricing

#864

Post by interlinked »

danijelb wrote: post #327

The web went in the wrong direction when we abandoned the initial concepts of user agents, which was that the browser has the ultimate choice of what to render and how. That concept, transferred to today's world of apps would simply mean that any client like Apollo is essentially a browser locked on Reddit's website, parsing HTML (which has the role of an API) and rendering the content in a native interface. As long…

Why can't these apps just use the api that reddit.com uses? How could the servers differentiate between reddit.com and apollo app pretending to be reddit.com to the server?

Re: Had a call with Reddit to discuss pricing

#865

Post by fendy3002 »

stjohnswarts wrote: post #808
rybosworld wrote: post #328

I definitely see Reddit going the way of Yahoo! A slow spiral into irrelevance because of lots of small bad decisions. At one point, Reddit felt like a lone champion of free speech and conversation in a sea of buzzfeeds. I think they've moderated the website into ruin. They've put a lot of energy into silencing certain kinds of voices/opinions while promoting others. What's left is a very liberal echo chamber. All of…

nothing is stopping you from starting conservative versions of things on reddit. Reddit has been since it started pretty left leaning, but they don't stop r/conservative from existing as long as they maintain some decorum rather than act like 4chan or r/TheDonald which was riddled with nuts and russian bots. There are a ton of conservative leaning subs on there, just don't expect them to have thousands of visitors li…

What I see (from reddit) as an US outsider is the people in US are already too polarized. It's either you are my friend or my enemy, no middle ground.

No wonder, seeing what the political news are there at the last 3 years.

Re: Had a call with Reddit to discuss pricing

#866

Post by raverbashing »

actuator wrote: post #854
gaudat wrote: post #480

I have a story to tell, about the demise of one of the largest internet forums in my language. About ten years ago, when smartphones just started appearing, the forum did not have a mobile version, and there are various 3rd party clients on the App Store or Android Market. Later on, one of the largest 3rd party client was blocked, because of they hammering the forum's servers too hard,. Or something about caching and…

There is also one more story on the other side of it. Twitter used to have a vibrant ecosystem of clients, most of them working better than the official app both on web and mobile. Twitter was able to kill their third party app ecosystem with their paid API changes and lived to thrive as a company till recently. The reality is, you need a good cohort of content and users to move who can sustain the content, moderatio…

Twitter official app learned a lot about these 3rd party clients, also they didn't think their default experience should be alienating to most users

Re: Had a call with Reddit to discuss pricing

#867

Post by witchesindublin »

fendy3002 wrote: post #865
stjohnswarts wrote: post #808

Earlier quoted context omitted.

nothing is stopping you from starting conservative versions of things on reddit. Reddit has been since it started pretty left leaning, but they don't stop r/conservative from existing as long as they maintain some decorum rather than act like 4chan or r/TheDonald which was riddled with nuts and russian bots. There are a ton of conservative leaning subs on there, just don't expect them to have thousands of visitors li…

What I see (from reddit) as an US outsider is the people in US are already too polarized. It's either you are my friend or my enemy, no middle ground. No wonder, seeing what the political news are there at the last 3 years.

The news culture in the US is toxic. It creates division and people react to the news rather than the policy. I believe Reddit has a similar effect by pushing moderates and centre-left people to the right.

Re: Had a call with Reddit to discuss pricing

#868

Post by eru »

sahila wrote: post #826
eru wrote: post #731

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want training data for an LLM and are actively talking to some data providers, you'd just ask for a dump, instead of making a billion small requests. (You'd make the billion small requests, if you are doing this on the sly.)

Right that'd be the case now but previously you could just make a billion small requests for free.

Or at least you could try.

But that still makes the original commenters argument moot:

> Enterprise deals between these user generated content platforms and LLM platforms may well involve many billions of API requests, and the pricing is likely an order of magnitude less expensive per call due to the volume. The result is a cost-per-call that is cost-prohibitive at smaller scales, [...]

That speculation is not how things have been or were.

Re: Had a call with Reddit to discuss pricing

#869

Post by mmarq »

rybosworld wrote: post #328

I definitely see Reddit going the way of Yahoo! A slow spiral into irrelevance because of lots of small bad decisions. At one point, Reddit felt like a lone champion of free speech and conversation in a sea of buzzfeeds. I think they've moderated the website into ruin. They've put a lot of energy into silencing certain kinds of voices/opinions while promoting others. What's left is a very liberal echo chamber. All of…

> What's left is a very liberal echo chamber. All of the seemingly worst ideas from the left are stated as fact and voicing a dissenting opinion can quite literally get you banned.

A friend of mine is moving to Canada, another to Germany, both went to Reddit to ask for help, and what they got back was anti-immigration tropes of all kind (from "go away you cheap labour, you are stealing our jobs" to "go away you rich tech worker, you are gentrifying my town").

While social media are generally cesspools of psychological deragement, racism and xenophobia, I keep hearing people complaining about some undefined left wing bias because the occasional weirdo with pink hair complains about capitalism or fascism in r/weirdoswithpinkhair or r/randosthatcomplainaboutcapitalism.

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