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Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

missionlocal.org

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Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#861

Post by rodgerd »

JimDabell wrote: post #630
timmytokyo wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every major city has a crime problem and always has. The question is whether the situation is being blown out of proportion by sensationalist media or people with axes to grind. For a group that claims to be so rational, much of the HN crowd commenting here does seem to be averse to relying upon actual data.

> Every major city has a crime problem and always has. This isn’t true. The idea that cities must inherently have crime problems is a form of learned helplessness. You think they must have crime problems because it’s all you’ve ever experienced. Try visiting a city that has low crime, like Singapore or Tokyo.

Ah yes, low-crime Tokyo, where there are definitely no problems with organised crime, standover tactics in bars, construction companies using thugs to drive people out of homes, or a plethora of other well-documented problems.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#862

Post by Gigachad »

klyrs wrote: post #321
mztwo wrote: post #22

As the news media and twitterverse peddled the whole "crime-ridden SF" angle, I felt myself getting drawn into the same topic and agreeing with numerous friends on how much the city has declined. This is a good reminder of how we gravitate towards powerful emotional narratives, which in the moment can feel absolutely true despite an utter lack of supporting facts on an individual murder case. I hope this brings some…

Ironically, when the killer is alleged to be another tech exec known to the victim, people here still prefer to talk about "crime-ridden SF" instead.

Even the tech bros in SF are violent drug addicted killers

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#863

Post by RoyGBivCap »

danso wrote: post #108

The SF-is-a-hellhole narrative is compelling, but the report that Lee was not the victim of a random crime shouldn't have been surprising. The FBI says 40+% of murders are committed by a family member or acquaintance, and 10% by total strangers: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-...

It's not SF specific, but nationally violence peaked in the early '90s in America: https://www.statista.com/graphic/1/191219/reported-violent-c...

IIRC it was at least partly getting lead out of gasoline in the '70s: https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2017/06/01/new-evide...

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#864

Post by timcavel »

mztwo wrote: post #22

As the news media and twitterverse peddled the whole "crime-ridden SF" angle, I felt myself getting drawn into the same topic and agreeing with numerous friends on how much the city has declined. This is a good reminder of how we gravitate towards powerful emotional narratives, which in the moment can feel absolutely true despite an utter lack of supporting facts on an individual murder case. I hope this brings some…

[dead]

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#865

Post by Pils »

yonran wrote: post #827
Pils wrote: post #740

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current CEO of YCombinator regarding an article in Mission Local a few days ago: Mission Local seems to serve their local bureaucratic masters over the basic public safety needs of the people. [0] This is gaslighting. You should be ashamed. [1] In this case they are “independent” of a sort [2] In all fairness, he did retweet this article a couple hours ago. [0] https://twitter.com/garrytan/status/1644520924828540…

The top part of Joe Eskenazi’s earlier article https://missionlocal.org/2023/04/bob-lee-crazy-bob-mobilecoi... was good (where he reported evidence that the Bob Lee killing was not a robbery), but I agree with Garry Tan that the bottom part of the article (where he makes a broader commentary on whether San Francisco is “safe” unrelated to Bob Lee) is gaslighting and reductionist. It makes many claims and implications…

I think you are trying to pigeonhole Eskenazi's argument into the standard "progressives don't care about crime" punditry that's popular on the right. I would suggest re-reading the column with a more open mind. His argument is that feeling safe is as important, if not more important from a policymaking perspective, as empirical measures of safety ("real risk") such as violent crime rate. He is in fact arguing the exact opposite of what you are characterizing him as arguing ("rampant property crime does not make you unsafe", "festering drug addiction does not make you unsafe"), and seems to have advised politicians to ignore these issues at their own peril.

The problem is that just like violent crime rates don't fully explain feelings of safety, things that make one feel unsafe don't fully explain all violent crime. Since Bob Lee's murder did not seem to be a result of either drug-induced psychosis or a mugging gone wrong, Joe made the correct call that the murder was likely unrelated to either of those issues.

That all being said, it appears that you have issues with him based on unrelated reporting on an issue you seem to care deeply about. A good of a time as any to examine any potential biases you might have when receiving new information so you don't accidentally embarrass yourself on Twitter!

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#866

Post by tshaddox »

misssocrates wrote: post #718
Convolutional wrote: post #681

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After the murder, I had to read scores of comments like this ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35456168 ) about the homeless, need for more law enforcement (although the US already incarcerates more of its population than any industrialized country) etc. I had to read scores of tech bros in the professional-managerial class whinge about the poor, about black lives matter and how this was due to "progressivism".…

What percentage are entrepreneurs and what percentage are people with mental health problems and or drug addiction?

A reasonable question, but barely relevant to the emotional reaction to this specific tragedy, which involved a single victim and presumably a single killer and is unlikely to have much effect on the overall percentages.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#867

Post by threatofrain »

dmix wrote: post #426
patcon wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

fwiw, there are two SF-is-a-hellhole narratives, and this turn of events reflects differently through the prism of each: - narrative A (looking "up"): where the upper-class technologists are the reason for the social precarity-based hellscape experienced by the lower-class residents - narrative B (looking "down"): where the crime of the lower-class is the cause of the fearful crime-based hellscape experienced by the…

Everyone is a victim of this stuff, not just the upper class. Poor people getting to work having their car windows smashed multiple times is a serious issue. But the constant drumbeat of property crime, dirtiness, and leud acts in public it gets downplayed because the murder rate is less than it was during some prior horrible time in the city's history and people feel some need to defend their own city (and the parti…

SF’s homicide rate is below the national average.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#868

Post by rodgerd »

thethethethe wrote: post #771
zenkat wrote: post #608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that says more about Hacker News than SF. There's a level of hate for the city here that I don't understand. Feels a bit like a vendetta sometimes.

There is def a vendetta but you see the same things in r/sanfrancisco and other places as well so it's not limited to HN

A lot of city (and country) subs on reddit are overrun with people who don't live in the place commenting on what a hell-hole it is. We see this in New Zealand every time something gets international attention, and it's very obvious given time zones and posting volumes.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#869

Post by Aeolun »

jefftk wrote: post #240
Aeolun wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For comparison, Japan has 0.3, the UK has 1.1 and France has 1.3. I know they’re in the linked table, just wanted to mention that even the best city in the US is still relatively bad.

> even the best city in the US is still relatively bad Your parent didn't mention the "best city in the US" though? Per the linked table it seems to be Irvine CA at 0.72 per 100k, which would be below average in the UK or France.

Apologies, since they seemed to pick an example based on desirability I assumed it was the best.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#870

Post by Aeolun »

ActorNightly wrote: post #424
Aeolun wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For comparison, Japan has 0.3, the UK has 1.1 and France has 1.3. I know they’re in the linked table, just wanted to mention that even the best city in the US is still relatively bad.

Birmingham UK has way higher numbers https://www.bhamwiki.com/w/Birmingham_homicides_by_year

Holy shit, Birmingham sounds like a fun place to live. Guess it’s offset by how safe the rest of the UK is.

Of course you are now more likely to die from lack of medical care than a murder, so it may not matter too much.

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