Do we live in a society without a counterculture? • Hacker News Board

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#861

Post by ticviking » Thu, Feb 02, 2023, 1:11 AM UTC

undersuit wrote: post #752

ticviking wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many Christians do you know who fast, or pray the daily hours? How many who are devout enough to respond when someone takes the name of the Lord in vain? As a cultural stream "Trads" are definitely distinct from Conservative Protestantism or the evangelical movement.

I've spent a good amount of time and effort distancing myself from religion and specifically Christianity for about 20 years. So 0.

Before making such an effort in thought were you even aware of such a subculture?

I get why you might not want to participate in the those things but the point that Trads as a counterculture phenomenon are new and distinct from the previous mainline Protestant or evangelical Christian cultural movements.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#862

Post by bglazer » Thu, Feb 02, 2023, 1:13 AM UTC

mshake2 wrote: post #783

banannaise wrote: post #733

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> LGBTQ was edgy Aside from monogamous gay people, queerness is very much still edgy and not particularly accepted by the dominant/mainstream culture. (This is not a positive thing, but it is reality.)

>queerness is very much still edgy and not particularly accepted by the dominant/mainstream culture Being supported by advertising, movies, tv shows, signaled by major corporations and workplaces, and supported top-down by the government means its edgy and counterculture? We live in completely different realities I guess.

Being LGBTQ is one of the few identities or choices that will result in being disowned by a significant portion of American families. That attitude is edging out of the mainstream but it’s practically dogma among evangelicals and other socially conservative groups. So yes, those people do live in a different reality, where Biden admin policy and “Will and Grace” don’t matter at all.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#863

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Feb 02, 2023, 1:15 AM UTC

graphe wrote: post #589

koprulusector wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hippies were shit on during the sixties because of politics and the Vietnam war. The hippies were a big part of the anti war movement. The simplest and quickest way to shutting the movement down was to criminalize its constituents, like hippies, or civil rights activists, through tactics like draconian drug laws and a drug war. The hippies were rooted in things that were objectively good: peace, love, self discov…

You've made a mistake that most people do with hippies. Hippies were not political. Student protestors and hippies are seen as the same thing even though they're not. Hippies didn't go to protest. 4chan is another place you mischaracterize due to the mainstream media. Social rejects go there. Of every kind. You probably ignored the fact that there's been an LGBT board for more than a decade since you don't go there.

[deleted]

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#864

Post by s5300 » Thu, Feb 02, 2023, 1:16 AM UTC

farmaway wrote: post #646

vorpalhex wrote: post #566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Several hippies wrote in favor of having sex with children. Many of them took their own advice. Look at how whitewashed hippies are now.

The nonces are still with us. Prostasia Foundation is the new NAMBLA, working hard to normalize "minor-attracted persons" within academia and the nonprofit space. They're aided by those who rationalize children's consent on questions of sexual and bodily integrity. If you trust a nine-year-old boy to tell us they're actually a girl, and you trust an eleven-year-old child who wants to inject puberty blockers, and you…

If you trust Peter Thiel to put a suicide collar on anybody working for him lest they disobey…

Hope moral people will never not be completely weirded out by the amount of tech oriented folk who look up to him or aspire to be like him.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#865

Post by MichaelMoser123 » Thu, Feb 02, 2023, 1:16 AM UTC

"meet the new boss, same as the old boss"

In Germany they had the Green party, once upon a time that was a gathering point of those who were against 'the establishment'. Now the Green party is a major political party, and pretty much part of that same establishment.

I guess that something similar happened with the techies. Some of those weird nerds became very rich - and that's quite popular with the general public.

And then came twitter, that one killed both the radio star and the TV presenter. And than came Elon - the king of the nerds - and he is killing twitter :-)

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#866

Post by longbrass » Thu, Feb 02, 2023, 1:17 AM UTC

narrator wrote: post #509

jjk166 wrote: post #484

If you only consume mainstream media then you may personally live in a society which lacks a counterculture. You strike up a conversation with the girl picking mushrooms in the middle of nowhere or you go to an underground death metal concert or spend a bit of time on 4chan and you'll find countercultures alive and well that you're just not part of. If you think a sense of sameness pervades the creative world then yo…

The way you know 4chan is the counterculture is every time someone releases a new generative art tool, 4chan figures out a way to do stuff with it that makes the creators have to restrict and/or shut it down. Like in the 1960s how the mainstream culture would whisper under their breath and point in shock and horror at hippies and try to get them banned from various public venues, and send mobs to beat them up, we hav…

4chan is almost 20 years old, it may have been a countercultural element but I assure you kids these days are not on the chans like they once were. If it is still a cultural touchpoint for males 18-24 it is unlikely to remain so for much longer. Your yardstick for cultural relevance centered around creative AI usage is myopic when compared to the interests of actual younger humans who presumably would make up the counterculture.

What is hilarious is that by your definition it is concevable that the increasingly old men who continue to use 4chan could infact be the counterculture you seek... so in 60 years they will all be dead anyway (vax or no vax)

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#867

Post by ticviking » Thu, Feb 02, 2023, 1:17 AM UTC

teachrdan wrote: post #687

ticviking wrote: post #524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you think of a major network show where the focus was on Christian themes in a way like queer eye is about LGBT+ themes? The last one I can think of was "Touched By an Angel" and that is over 20 years old now. (edited to add an omitted word)

Even this is wrong. The Hallmark channel makes 40 Christmas movies a year, all of them with Christian families, obviously. (Some allow for a character who is Jewish.) These movies attract millions of viewers. https://www.forbes.com/sites/tonifitzgerald/2021/12/24/the-e... https://www.forbes.com/sites/jonathanberr/2019/01/11/widely-...

The idea that an underserved market is able to be farmed by a niche cable network supports my thesis. The hallmark channel kind of explicitly Christian entertainment is counter cultural rather than mainstream.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#868

Post by ticviking » Thu, Feb 02, 2023, 1:20 AM UTC

selimthegrim wrote: post #739

teachrdan wrote: post #687

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even this is wrong. The Hallmark channel makes 40 Christmas movies a year, all of them with Christian families, obviously. (Some allow for a character who is Jewish.) These movies attract millions of viewers. https://www.forbes.com/sites/tonifitzgerald/2021/12/24/the-e... https://www.forbes.com/sites/jonathanberr/2019/01/11/widely-...

Wait until they find out who wrote most of those Christmas tin pan alley songs

It’s not a surprise to anyone who has studied show business at all. The Boscht belt and its associated Jewish entertainment circuit was a critical incubator of talent for our nations popular music.

No one is hiding any of this, and it’s trivial to read a memoir from many musicians and see a story about how they wanted to feel more included in the increasingly secularized holidays so they wrote music that was about the stuff that included in them.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#869

Post by s5300 » Thu, Feb 02, 2023, 1:24 AM UTC

skyyler wrote: post #612

Taywee wrote: post #585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not childish anymore. It's just angry and cynical. It looks less like the shit-talking edgy teenagers having fun being idiots like it was in 2007, and more like unhinged, hateful, contrarian paranoid schizophrenia. I wish the people on 4chan had the stupid childish fun that I did 15 years ago.

>and more like unhinged, hateful, contrarian paranoid schizophrenia. You and I did not use the same 4chan in 2007... I learned new slurs there, ways to insult people that I could have never imagined. I read posts from a schizoid that claimed to have evidence that the government was influencing his life through the ratings of popular animes on My Anime List. I saw child porn get posted regularly. I saw extremely hatef…

>> I read posts from a schizoid that claimed to have evidence that the government was influencing his life through the ratings of popular animes on My Anime List.

This was called trolling for the lulz, you fell for it, & seem to have not realized even 15 years later.

Schizoposting as a fun pasttime has been a thing for users of 4chan/online forums forever. Go watch some South Park episodes centered on Gerald Broflovski trolling. Can’t remember which season off the top of my head. It may help you to understand if things don’t click.

Anecdotally, actual schizophrenics tend to post endlessly into their own little void on traditional social media, often not slightly being aware of or caring that they have either absolutely zero engagement or anybody seeing their profiles at all.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#870

Post by moistly » Thu, Feb 02, 2023, 1:27 AM UTC

erybodyknows wrote: post #337

neonnoodle wrote: post #71

The medium is the message dudes. At this point in history, what will qualify a true counterculture is NOT BEING ONLINE. Whatever the true counterculture will be, it won’t be subject to the Internet and its all-seeing eye. It won’t be made out of memes and flame wars. No matter what the political bent, we’re all very much a captive audience online. “Master’s house/master’s tools” and all that.

On this topic: part of counterculture used to be the ability to *signal* your identification with the group to other group members. Styles of dress, certain symbols or artifacts have all been commonly used. How does one signal to others their social media rejectionism in the age of social media communication ubiquity?

The Signal: You do not carry a Phone.

You definitely do not carry a smartphone. You might be excused a flip phone, if only because you’re not likely to b super-connected with it, but honestly that’s pushing it; even the most primitive cellphone has sms.