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Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

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Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#861

Post by caslon »

johnebgd wrote: post #799
caslon wrote: post #787

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why Cryptocurrency Is A Giant Fraud >Speculators might make money on it, but the arguments for its usefulness fail completely. https://www.currentaffairs.org/2021/04/why-cryptocurrency-is... >Bitcoin is the greatest scam in history >It’s a colossal pump-and-dump scheme, the likes of which the world has never seen. https://www.vox.com/2018/4/24/17275202/bitcoin-scam-cryptocu... >The Great Cryptocurrency Scam https://…

Articles you cited are from years ago or a contributor (not an employee) of Forbes. I met Jackson Palmer in 2017/2018 and he had a level head for looking through this mania. Even the Tether fraud hasn’t stopped the Bitcoin buying frenzy.

The first one was from under a year ago.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#862

Post by starfallg »

dragonwriter wrote: post #660
starfallg wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, negligence would be that something else. Theranos had a duty of care to the patients and they very blatantly breached that duty. Fraud deals with purely financial loss, while negligence deals with harm which is much wider in scope.

> Fraud deals with purely financial loss False. Fraud deals with any time in which something of value (not just something financial) is obtained under false pretenses, and (where civil damages or criminal restitution is sought/awarded for it) can address all compensable harms resulting from the misrepresentation, not just loss that was financial in character (the restitution will be financial, of course, but that's a…

Loss of property or of value is still monetary loss, which is financial. The fact is that for fraud, you much prove that something of value has been lost.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#863

Post by the_doctah »

kyleblarson wrote: post #857

I hadn't followed Theranos much until the trial but listened to the American Scandal podcast about it. I find the narration to be a bit cheesy but it was pretty informative for just a few hours of listening while exercising: https://podcasts.apple.com/my/podcast/theranos-startup/id143...

I can also recommend the book Bad Blood (Carreyrou 2018)

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#864

Post by s1artibartfast »

Pxtl wrote: post #754
jcranmer wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not particularly surprising, if you assume that the jury was essentially looking for a specific, traceable line between representations from Elizabeth Holmes herself (and nobody else) and the subsequent payment as a necessary element of fraud. (Whether or not the jury was doing so could be guessed from reading the jury instructions, which I haven't done). Being found guilty of defrauding investors in that light…

From what I've read, patients were prevented from testifying about the impact of the damage caused by the incorrect test results. That means life-changing pain and suffering was concealed from the jury.

Not true: here is one example of testimony:

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/17/theranos-patient-says-blood-...

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#865

Post by nathanvanfleet »

biztos wrote: post #789
ferdowsi wrote: post #737

I'm loving reading through all of the sickening puff pieces that business/tech journalists put out about her and Theranos. It's funny to think back to 2015 and the hagiographical void still left in tech journo hearts after Steve Jobs died. https://www.inc.com/ilan-mochari/elizabeth-holmes-theranos-i... > How Elizabeth Holmes Became America's New Entrepreneurial Icon > She represents the part of entrepreneurship that…

> She only pauses in her work to run — seven miles a day. -- Laura Arrillaga-Andreessen, yes that Andreessen, writing in the New York Times Magazine about Visionary Tech Entrepreneurs with, um, no conflict of interest whatsoever I'm sure. Turns out Palantir's Alex Karp was also "harnessing goodness through technology." No idea how she missed Adam Neumann. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/10/12/t-magazine/el..…

I think that Fox news has been around enough that people really don't expect any media to be neutral anymore. It just seems natural and normal for any media outlet to be vertically integrated into something. Washington Post seems to be anti union and against billionaires being taxed? Whatever.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#866

Post by boc »

thehappypm wrote: post #816
gameswithgo wrote: post #785

I wonder what parallels we can draw between Holmes and her blood testing, with Elon and full self driving. I suppose Elon has covered his bases by saying it is still a work in progress while charging for it, but he has also been saying it will be ready in about a year or two since 2016. I think the FSD research Tesla is doing is interesting, but man I would rather all of that money gone into a carbon fiber roof or so…

Consider the James Webb Space Telescope. Are the engineers working on it frauds because it’s been delayed for years? No, they have legitimately been trying their best despite leadership committing to dates. Theranos would be if JWST took taxpayer dollars and launched a non working telescope and sent back fake images. Tesla with FSD is a lot more like the JWST being delayed, or perhaps if they launched a stripped down…

Except the JWST isn't going to fly through my windshield at 80 miles an hour on 280 if it doesn't end up working perfectly.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#867

Post by ineedasername »

avgcorrection wrote: post #853
ineedasername wrote: post #834

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not denying his brutal play of realpolitik game or any of his awful failures. (Also the Nobel Peace Prize has become pretty meaningless. I usually wonder what skeletons will come out of the closets of any recipients--Hitchens had some bad things to say about Mother Teressa too.) I'm talking about his name recognition, and most importantly his influence & connections . I'm sure he'd rather be r…

“Brutal play of realpolitik game” as if committing war crimes is some kind of tough-nailed, pragmatic style of leadership.

tough-nailed, pragmatic style of leadership.

That's a rough definition of realpolitik. Pragmatism over ideals or morals is baked into the concept.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#868

Post by druadh »

gameswithgo wrote: post #785

I wonder what parallels we can draw between Holmes and her blood testing, with Elon and full self driving. I suppose Elon has covered his bases by saying it is still a work in progress while charging for it, but he has also been saying it will be ready in about a year or two since 2016. I think the FSD research Tesla is doing is interesting, but man I would rather all of that money gone into a carbon fiber roof or so…

The progress made on full self driving (FSD) has been quite transparent, at least compared to Theranos. I worked at Tesla from 2017 - 2019 and the quality of Enhanced Autopilot probably quadrupled in the that small amount of time. I left before being able to experience the progress made on FSD, unfortunately.

I agree that Elon's timeline's are absolute BS. My perspective on his timelines are that they are almost meant more for his employees (throughout all his companies) to try and shorten the time it takes to 'achieve the impossible'. For example, something that most industry folks would think will take 20-30 years (or is feasibly impossible ie. reusable rockets), Elon gives a 5 year timeline and his team actually gets it done in 10 -- still less time than anyone thought possible.

I'm excited to see what kind of progress is made on FSD once the DOJO supercomputer is built out and put to work (another item with an unrealistic timeline, I've no doubt).

Just my two cents. Enjoy your Model 3!

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#869

Post by 0xdeadbeefbabe »

Ansil849 wrote: post #170
sharkweek wrote: post #25

This will sound weird but I am a collector of swag from large companies that have collapsed due to anything from mismanagement to outright fraud. While we're a rare breed there are others like me out there. Still, even with this oddly specific marketplace being small, let me tell you, the Theranos swag market is hot right now (check eBay if you're curious). Wish I had gone big on this one earlier, because I have a fe…

> I am a collector of swag from large companies that have collapsed due to anything from mismanagement to outright fraud That's a really cool collection! I always find it interesting to learn what obscure things folks collect. > any authentic Theranos gear How do you tell if it's authentic? If I was a collector in this area, my big concern would be that especially given that the market is hot, someone could just look…

Authenticity aside, I'd still buy that voice lowering vocoder.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#870

Post by deepsun »

ineedasername wrote: post #792

Ironic that her board of directors-- one of the most praised aspects of Theranos-- probably hurt her when it came to going after her with criminal charges. These were some of the most well-connected people in the country, and making them look like fools did her no favors. Once it was clear this wouldn't go away quietly, I'd bet they pushed hard to ensure criminal prosecution. (which I think she deserved anyway.) Espe…

Tim Draper was telling everyone that Holmes did no wrong.

Last time I checked, a large poster with Elisabet Holmes was still present at the back of Hero City (Draper's accelerator, across the street from Draper University).

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