Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

“Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

niemanlab.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

861–870 of 890 posts

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#861

Post by _2d30 »

mynameisvlad wrote: post #860
_2d30 wrote: post #797

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Processing napkin cancellation requests requires just about as much work as any other form of "manual" request -- whether that's over email, phone, etc. The costs of running phone support are absurd. You have literally no idea what you’re talking about. Even just spend like 5 seconds considering how you’re going to go through the process you laid out when someone hands you a napkin they wrote on LOL

So, what you’re saying is that you don’t actually want to provide your customers support because it costs too much? Where’s that straw man now? You could’ve saved both of us a lot of time by just stating it upfront.

Sorry for claiming you were making straw men. I realize now you have poor reading comprehension.

All the best.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#862

Post by theK »

daedalus_f wrote: post #664
theK wrote: post #623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate so many companies just because of these “make it difficult” policies… it’s just disgusting. NYT did it to me as well, they will never see a penny from me again. Economist? It was just clicking around in the site! I unsubscribed and resubed from them multiple times and am a happy subscriber right now as well!

Thats changed then - several years ago they gave me a right dance involving phone calls and emails. Lost me as a customer for good.

I think anybody’s mileage might vary in these situations. I’m aware of once case with a German publication where I had to call to unsubscribe (and was told to send physical mail!!!) and some other person could just cancel their contract per email… But I like the publication too much to name them :-)

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#863

Post by kuschku »

bodge5000 wrote: post #824
kuschku wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU regulation on this was already passed several years ago, and is already enforced in some countries, it should be universally enforced by the end of the year.

Usually Germany is pretty snappy on enforcing EU regulations, but at least in this case it would appear not as I've heard Germans more than any other EU national complaining about this issue in particular. Again though, maybe there are loopholes (just look at GDPR, or to an extent even TPD). Do you have a regulation reference by any chance?

It was implemented in German law via

    Gesetzesänderung des § 309 Nr. 13 BGB vom 1. Oktober 2016
See the news stories about it: https://www.pcwelt.de/news/Ab-1.10.-Kunden-duerfen-Online-Ve...

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#865

Post by apendleton »

bluGill wrote: post #804
apendleton wrote: post #694

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just responded to another comment to the same effect, but this is neither a law nor a regulation, but rather a policy statement, probably so they can get away with not having to go through APA-mandated notice-and-comment rulemaking, so it's deliberately framed as recommendations for how to comply with existing rules/statutes rather than creation of new ones.

these recomendations are addmisable in court, if yiu want to get a lawyer involved about your lack of satisfaction. Or even if you are a lawyer trying for a class action lawsuit.

They'd be admissible, but mostly just in an advisory sense. Policy documents like this don't, themselves, have the force of law, they just suggest the agency's preferred interpretation of existing statutes or regulations. That does matter -- if said existing statute or regulation is ambiguous, and the way the agency interprets it is a plausible one, courts will often defer to the agency's judgment as to how to resolve the ambiguity (these are called Chevron and Auer deference, respectively for statutes and regulations). But a court could also find that the existing law isn't ambiguous, or the agency's interpretation isn't plausible, or that the policy position constitutes new law that requires APA rulemaking, so they're not bound by a document like this necessarily.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#866

Post by noneeeed »

idworks1 wrote: post #756

Anecdata (only because I don't have access to the data anymore). Customer satisfaction is so much higher when they get a one click unsubscribe. In fact, when the friction is so low, the customer is likely to start the subscription back. I say this as someone who worked in customer service automation. The worst customer satisfaction score with lowest rate of re-subscription is from companies that make it hell to unsub…

I wish more companies would get this. I don't continuously subscribe to Netflix or NowTV but knowing that I can unsubscribe with a couple of click is one of the reasons I'm happy to sign up from.ti!e to.time for something specific. If I feel li!e signing up is a.risk, I do t do it.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#867

Post by ghostpepper »

MAGZine wrote: post #568
strenholme wrote: post #344

Since I live in California, which has a “click to subscribe means you must have click to cancel” regulation, this isn’t an issue for me. After the New York Times published their inaccurate hit piece attacking Scott Alexander and Slate Star Codex/Astral Codex Ten, I was able to cancel online just clicking my way through. I now subscribe to The Wall Street Journal, which looks to be the most neutral newspaper right now…

Canceling aside, I don't think the WSJ is particularly neutral, but perhaps it does appeal to your sensibilities (note, however, those are not the same). I find WSJ to take particularly corporatist/capitialist views on things. Which is fine for things business, I suppose, but I've read many articles from WSJ that are basically "hey government sucks, am i rite?" which is not neutral.

I don't look for a neutral paper, because I don't think it exists.

Instead, I want to hear the smartest people from the left and the smartest people from the right argue their best points in a calm, reasoned way and check their facts before printing.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#869

Post by alsetmusic »

loh wrote: post #849
idworks1 wrote: post #756

Anecdata (only because I don't have access to the data anymore). Customer satisfaction is so much higher when they get a one click unsubscribe. In fact, when the friction is so low, the customer is likely to start the subscription back. I say this as someone who worked in customer service automation. The worst customer satisfaction score with lowest rate of re-subscription is from companies that make it hell to unsub…

I always treat my customers/clients the way I would want to be treated, and it always seems to work out for the best. I've also given refunds to some customers without them asking for it first because I value their satisfaction more than I value a few dollars. There's no way to know for sure, but I suspect treating customers like this (like humans) increases retention and well-being, and not only for them, but for me…

I had a problem with a large appliance. Guy came and looked at it and recommended a course of action that was free and I took it. The problem came back after a month. When he found out his advice didn’t hold, he came immediately to perform a repair because, as he put it, he didn’t want his reputation to be damaged in my eyes.

He offered what he thought was best. When that wasn’t it, he wasted no time getting to the next step. I tipped him more than I otherwise would because his concern over getting it right seemed genuine, and I care more about that than I do getting it right the first time without really caring one way or the other.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#870

Post by nunez »

jdc0589 wrote: post #464
nunez wrote: post #459

This is amazing. I wanted to delete a bunch of services I had passwords for in 1Password. A significant number of them couldn't be cancelled online. You couldn't even call. You had to email to ask for a cancellation. This, in effect, meant that they held your data hostage. Of course, this means nothing if fees aren't associated with non-compliance.

this is only useful for some paid services (and does nothing to deal with your data they still have), but virtual credit cards are a life saver. I feel powerful every time I can't cancel something from a service's website but I can just go kill the virtual credit card I signed up with.

I learned about Abine and Privacy while going through that exercise and they have, indeed, changed my life.

Between that, Firefox containers, and iPostal (virtual mailing address that accepts almost any sort of mail), I have much stronger identity protection when I shop online.

Every recurring subscription gets made on isolated Privacy cards. Every website that isn't Amazon gets an independent Blur card. I now never have to worry about overcharges, data breaches, or my data being sold. The adtechs can have it; go nuts!

Post reply on HN