Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How to Work Hard

paulgraham.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

861–870 of 1001 posts

Re: How to Work Hard

#861

Post by ceilingcorner »

emodendroket wrote: post #841
ceilingcorner wrote: post #604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment about VCs makes no sense. If a VC wants you to work hard because that’s how a VC gets rich, that means that working hard leads to building a successful company. If it were purely luck, why would the VC care if you worked hard or not?

I think the criticism is not so illogical. Let's just assume your company has a 5% chance of wild success and you can double it by working insanely hard (I think these numbers are likely generous, but easier to take round numbers for the sake of argument). It is in this case simultaneously true that it's in VCs' interest to convince you to work very hard and also that it's probably not in your interest. It only makes…

Then hard work increases your chances. What is controversial about this?

Re: How to Work Hard

#862

Post by luffapi »

ceilingcorner wrote: post #860
luffapi wrote: post #657

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If VCs knew what made companies great, they wouldn’t fail 9 out of 10 times. More than any profession I can think of, VC is almost pure luck + how much wealth you already have, which attracts deal flow, which increases your odds to get lucky. PG blogs because he thinks it increases his deal flow (or he wants attention). Just because he’s saying it, it doesn’t make it true, even if he believes his own story.

That still doesn't answer my question. If hard work had no effect, why would VCs encourage it?

Because they’re ignorant and think it matters.

Re: How to Work Hard

#863

Post by ceilingcorner »

luffapi wrote: post #862
ceilingcorner wrote: post #860

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That still doesn't answer my question. If hard work had no effect, why would VCs encourage it?

Because they’re ignorant and think it matters.

So they encourage hard work because it makes them money, but not really, because they are only ignorant in thinking that it does, and it's actually entirely luck?

Yeah, this attitude is a mental pretzel more akin to ideology than fact.

Re: How to Work Hard

#864

Post by irajdeep »

going_ham wrote: post #575
bachmeier wrote: post #498

> It was similar with Lionel Messi. He had great natural ability, but when his youth coaches talk about him, what they remember is not his talent but his dedication and his desire to win. I can assure you, there are many kids that practice harder than Messi did when he was young. He is not a great player because of hard work, he is a great player because of luck. I know the VC thing about the importance of hard work.…

In fact there is a good video from Verassium [1]. One can't discount luck. There is no such thing as hard work. It's just the feeling of being in flow and whatever one does to make you re-live that flow, it's totally worth it. Instead of working on hard problems, it's best to prioritize on optimum problem and get the best out of your situation. With optimum problem, I mean the problems that allow you to maximize your…

That video from Verassium is spot on.

Re: How to Work Hard

#865

Post by pnexk »

Tycho wrote: post #568
helen___keller wrote: post #162

When I was an undergrad at CMU, I learned how to work hard. Really hard. After having coasted through too-easy high school, I spent all day every day at CMU either programming, doing mathematics, or thinking about one of those things (to great effect: often the trick to prove a theorem would pop into my head while showering or while taking a walk). I would fall asleep while programming in the middle of the night, dre…

Maybe I’m jumping to conclusions here but there seems to be something obvious that you and others in this thread are overlooking: not all leisure activities are created equal. Some nourish the soul or the body, some are spiritual deserts. Video games are in the latter category. Of course you’re going to feel bad about spending your time on them. But you could instead read a classic novel, play a sport, play some musi…

You're getting repeatedly downvoted but I think you have a point here that could have been articulated with less snobbery.

There's many folks here who grew up on videogames and most likely find it to have been a vehicle for meaningful experiences that are to some extent comparable to some of the things you've listed (for example, often videogames have social dimensions to them where lifelong connections are made).

I find you more agreeable with your emphasis on artistic value however towards developing a person. While it is true videogames are an artistic medium as well, the vast breadth of human art and knowledge/ wisdom lie in more established mediums that have been around for longer such as literature and music.

Videogames certainly have the potential to provide artistic value that is comparable to this long accumulated pile, but this is no easy task, pleasure and relaxation aside.

Re: How to Work Hard

#866

Post by asdff »

swman wrote: post #625
bachmeier wrote: post #498

> It was similar with Lionel Messi. He had great natural ability, but when his youth coaches talk about him, what they remember is not his talent but his dedication and his desire to win. I can assure you, there are many kids that practice harder than Messi did when he was young. He is not a great player because of hard work, he is a great player because of luck. I know the VC thing about the importance of hard work.…

Okay, but nobody is going to become anywhere close to Messi without working hard. That's the point. Do you think someone could become Messi by putting in barely any practice or effort? You might get into a team, but you won't be a Messi lol. Be honest with yourself. Obviously luck plays a role, but most people (>90% I'll bet) who are successful in the end get there due to hard work. I could sit on my butt and do noth…

Messi was one of those kids like Tiger Woods and Steph Curry who had a dedicated parent coach who got them into the game at an extremely young age, and into the hands of the best trainers they could throughout their childhood. Most kids who are born into that situation end up at the tops of their sports.

Re: How to Work Hard

#867

Post by rgifford »

hallway_monitor wrote: post #856
emadabdulrahim wrote: post #850

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I'm not naive to not see that life is inherently unequal, I completely disagree with you. I know plenty people, including myself, who not only had the wrong zip code, they didn't even have a zip code. Somehow they made it. You can get lucky after you're born. And if you work hard, you can increase your luck odds. Also, why zip code is the axiom here? I'd say having good parents is more significant than being bo…

Nobody's to say. For some reason some people think that statistics dictate reality when obviously they just take an average. The zip code thingy is silly, but on average more expensive zip codes produce children with higher incomes.

Stats measure our shared experience. Is there something better for this?

The human spirit isn't unconquerable. Believing it is has the side effect that you write off others because, "try harder."

Vertasium did a fairly convincing bit on the zip code thing, which is -- I think -- why it's top of mind: https://youtu.be/3LopI4YeC4I

I encourage you to dig into economic data and not use your experience as a frame of reference for the economic reality of others.

Re: How to Work Hard

#868

Post by SilverRed »

selfmodruntime wrote: post #725
rgifford wrote: post #690

I worked my way through college as a mover (and came out the other side with high 5-figure debt). Many of the older guys I worked with had drug habits. I worked 16-hour days with those guys. They'd get on me for not running up stairs, for packing with too little paper around glass, for setting things down more than once. None wrote articles entitled "How to Work Hard." None knew Warren Buffet as a child (see Gates).…

> What if most of serious wealth and success is decided at birth? There is no 'what if'. It's just a fact. You can pretty accurately predict what a child will be able to attain in life by looking at their zip code.

It's not even really material inheritance or gifts. It's that successful parents teach their children how to be successful.

When I reflect on my life I realize that pretty much everything went right because my parents had explained all the steps. I followed my parents advice to learn programming, I followed my parents advice on how to get a job, I followed my parents advice on how to negotiate how to negotiate higher pay and when to put the squeeze on management.

And now I'm doing pretty well for myself. I did work hard but I could have worked just as hard in the wrong direction and got nowhere. But I was already shown the path by my parents.

Re: How to Work Hard

#869

Post by growup12345 »

vl wrote: post #663
edanm wrote: post #564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putting aside the fact that the article explicitly agrees with you that just hard work isn't enough, here's the part of your comment I don't understand: > I know the VC thing about the importance of hard work. They love to promote hard work because that's how they make money. Why would they promote hard work if hard work didn't matter? And if it does matter, then what exactly is your problem with what pg is saying?

Of course hard work matters, but when VC tells you to work hard, take it with the grain of salt, because this is how VC is going to make money off your work. What is missing from this advice is what is sacrificed. If and when 10-20 year later you cash out, what else are you going to have beside money? Family, friends, health? If you can make this trade-off consciously - good for you, but most people just go with the…

You are waisting your breath trying to convince the fanboys here. Their brain cannot grasp the concept that the VC just wants to make money.

To the VC, investing in a startup is equivalent to buying a very out of the money call option. Option theory tells us these are ultra low premium but have immensive upside, so the payoff for the VC is ultra convex and non linear: from 1000 startups, 10 get more than 10 mil valuation, and maybe 1 is a unicorn (i’m making the numbers up but u get the idea). So yes Mr Graham would love for all of the fanboys to work hard since they are literally just options to him, and he has nothing to lose apart from small options.

On the flip side, startup owners are then underwriting options in the form of their life and work, so must be short volatility.

Long story short: dont do startups thinking you will win, think the VC will win

Re: How to Work Hard

#870

Post by koonsolo »

bachmeier wrote: post #498

> It was similar with Lionel Messi. He had great natural ability, but when his youth coaches talk about him, what they remember is not his talent but his dedication and his desire to win. I can assure you, there are many kids that practice harder than Messi did when he was young. He is not a great player because of hard work, he is a great player because of luck. I know the VC thing about the importance of hard work.…

If you want to be the best, you will have to work very hard.

Claiming that anyone who is at the top of their game isn't working hard, is just plain lying.

This doesn't mean that only working hard will get you there. But it does mean that not working hard will not get you there.

Post reply on HN