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Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#861

Post by thekyle »

ColinWright wrote: post #706
blendergeek wrote: post #702

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But does it really do so in practice? If I'm using Element/Matrix and a colleague is using WhatsApp, or Signal, or Telegram, or Briar. Can they reliably send me messages? Can I reliably send them messages? Matrix is not the provider. Matrix is the protocol/idea. Element is both an app and a service. What is common, reliable, and achievable in practice: I decide I no longer like New Vector (who run the matrix.org ho…

But you're still only talking about apps that run on top of Matrix ... your initial comment made it sound like it was possible to interact with people on WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram, etc. I know that Matrix isn't the provider, that's why I mentioned Element/Matrix. I know that you can communicate between services that are all running on top of Matrix. That's why I specifically asked about other services. As I say, you…

Matrix does have a feature called Bridges which would allow you to talk to someone on WhatsApp, Telegram, iMessage, etc. through your Matrix client. However, I suspect that they have some reliability issues.

https://matrix.org/bridges/

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#862

Post by godelski »

josephg wrote: post #837
godelski wrote: post #767

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it makes more sense to use federated protocols after you've reached a certain critical mass of features and usability. Look how much Signal has improved in the last 6 months. That would be harder with a federated system as people just don't update apps. I'll buy a push for Signal to become federated when it is fully featured (which may be pretty soon). Also at that point, what is to stop people from making a…

> I think it makes more sense to use federated protocols after you've reached a certain critical mass of features and usability. Look how much Signal has improved in the last 6 months. I agree with this, but I’m starting to worry if that time will ever come. I thought messaging apps had basically all the features they’d ever need years ago. But I was wrong. I use voice messages in signal and WhatsApp daily now. If it…

I don't think federation solves that, in fact I think it makes it more difficult. Signal is open source and we're constantly seeing people complain on here about its lack of features or whatever. If we can't convince the most populous location for programmers to help in that respect then how could we do it for a federated network? And even the server is open sources. So I don't see why you couldn't have a fork that is federated. Or an app that is able to talk to both the centralized server and federated servers. It seems more a will problem than anything else and I don't see why Moxie and the Signal team would focus on these features above other features that are actually helping get people on the platform (arguably more important than any aspect).

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#863

Post by ColinWright »

thekyle wrote: post #861
ColinWright wrote: post #706

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you're still only talking about apps that run on top of Matrix ... your initial comment made it sound like it was possible to interact with people on WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram, etc. I know that Matrix isn't the provider, that's why I mentioned Element/Matrix. I know that you can communicate between services that are all running on top of Matrix. That's why I specifically asked about other services. As I say, you…

Matrix does have a feature called Bridges which would allow you to talk to someone on WhatsApp, Telegram, iMessage, etc. through your Matrix client. However, I suspect that they have some reliability issues. https://matrix.org/bridges/

> I suspect that they have some reliability issues.

I've heard that they are sufficiently unreliable as to be unusable, that was was some time ago, and things may have changed.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#864

Post by pxf »

jbotz wrote: post #283
apexalpha wrote: post #155

Where is the "Don't switch" option? Because as much as I hate that Facebook bought them, they're part of what I would call "critical social infrastructure." Asking to leave WhatsApp is like cancelling your contract with your ISP and going offline just because you don't like the company.

Well, I don't know where parent is located, but here in Brazil they are pretty much right. Everybody has WhatsApp... it's assumed that if you have a phone you have WhatsApp. A lot of financial transactions are conducted by doing a bank transfer and then sending the receipt via WhatsApp. The schools send essential messages to parents via WhatsApp. During lockdowns, stores were taking delivery orders via WhatsApp. What…

"When I delete my account I'm going to lose old conversations, but that doesn't bother me anymore because I already recently lost them once when I switched from Android to iOS... WhatsApp has no way of keeping your history in that case." - YAP!!!! TRUE!!!!

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#866

Post by jolmg »

airstrike wrote: post #758
dstroot wrote: post #748

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I ask this as a non-Whatsapp user. I have read the comments and I understand in some countries (Brazil, Netherlands, etc.) that Whatsapp is the main tool for person to person and person to business communications. What I can't figure out is why did it displace "plain SMS" or other tools. What drove the adoption? I'd love to hear more about that - was Whatsapp just the first mover?

Free VoIP, first and foremost. I remember when my dad told me his cousin from Venezuela suggested an app to him that allowed him to make free calls to anyone who also has it. I told him that was probably not right and he might have downloaded malware on his Android... Turns out he was right and the app took Brazil by storm On top of that, media, voice clips and cross-platform compatibility.

Yeah, some countries don't charge premiums for long-distance and roaming between each other, but among those that do charge such premiums, this would be another killer feature.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#867

Post by thekyle »

ValentineC wrote: post #235
dustinmoris wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You uninstall WhatsApp and tell your closest family and friends that they can only reach you on Signal. Because you are so important to them, they will install Signal as a backup/secondary app. Other people will do the same, and it will snowball into everyone having Signal installed and at some point people will realise that the network effect is gone.

> You uninstall WhatsApp and tell your closest family and friends that they can only reach you on Signal. Because you are so important to them, they will install Signal as a backup/secondary app. I'll be the one friend that'll insist on SMS/email. I’ll even offer to use some other supposedly encrypted method like Keybase or Matrix. If that doesn't work as a fallback, then I guess we can agree to disagree, and someone…

One of the benefits of Signal is that it can also do SMS on Android, so it works great with people like you who insist on using that. Your SMS messages will appear right alongside the native Signal ones in the app.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#868

Post by rglullis »

ruiseal wrote: post #847
rglullis wrote: post #834

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who do you think that allocates frequency spectrum? Imagine if every mobile phone company wanted to lock its users by operating on a specific frequency. Imagine if Hollywood or TV studios had any saying over Digital TV standards. Streaming would never exist and we would be used to a "pay-per-view" model forever, with mandatory and built-in DRM. This is not about enforcing how technology works. It just ensuring that n…

We would have been much worse off if governments, or governmental bodies like the UN, allocated IP addresses rather than a private anarcho-like entity.

How does allocation of IP addresses related to pushing for interoperability of communication protocols?

If your analogy was something about governmental bodies was worse than private entities when pushing for a standard network standard, then you would have a point. But unless I am deeply wrong, TCP/IP, GSM, LTE, DVB, even FM radio and PAL were standards that only became dominant after governmental bodies sanctioned as standards and no one misses AppleTalk or Novell's IDP because of "government meddling".

Even still, the argument is not for killing private protocols or stopping private companies to innovate and develop new technologies. It's "just" that these innovations should be made on top of open standards instead of displacing them. Don't forget that Google Talk and even Facebook's messenger started on top of XMPP. They closed purely for business reasons, not technical ones. Had the FCC told them "do whatever you want with your network and your client, but anyone speaking XMPP should be able to communicate with your users", we wouldn't be in this mess.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#869

Post by thekyle »

damidekronik wrote: post #13
approxim8ion wrote: post #3

Telegram is a downgrade in terms of both security and privacy. Just leaving the comment for people who consider it. It's an excellent platform and a joy to use but I personally refuse to use it.

Downgrade in terms of privacy from WhatsApp? Some explanation is needed for such a bold statement.

IMO Telegram is more similar to Facebook Messenger than WhatsApp from a security and privacy standpoint. Both do not use end-to-end encryption by default (but both have a separate end-to-end encrypted private chat mode).

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#870

Post by hnick »

gst wrote: post #394
jbotz wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I don't know where parent is located, but here in Brazil they are pretty much right. Everybody has WhatsApp... it's assumed that if you have a phone you have WhatsApp. A lot of financial transactions are conducted by doing a bank transfer and then sending the receipt via WhatsApp. The schools send essential messages to parents via WhatsApp. During lockdowns, stores were taking delivery orders via WhatsApp. What…

> [Edit] When I delete my account I'm going to lose old conversations, but that doesn't bother me anymore because I already recently lost them once when I switched from Android to iOS... WhatsApp has no way of keeping your history in that case. And otherwise there's really no friction to deleting an account, since you can always recreate it. There are several third-party tools that allow to convert the history from A…

Mind naming the one you used? We'll have a spare iPhone soon when my wife upgrades and it might be time for me to go back to iOS after many years. I'm just a bit worried about some apps and things that might be harder to migrate like this.
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