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YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

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Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#862

This is Orwellian bullshit. And I'll take it because I think the alternative is leading to a few greedy assholes using analytical data to successfully weaponize millions upon millions of uninformed people against logic and common sense. Do we add restrictions to voting to weed out people who habitually vote anti-facts? No. Disenfranchisement. Do we make fake news illegal? No. Censorship leading to state run media. Do…

I’m asking as sincerely as I can, I wish no one harm or to lose their right to vote — How do we have a higher mail in ballot rejection rate in non-pandemic times than we do in pandemic times? And then follow up, if we assume incredible voter turnout, how do many of these first time mail in ballots follow the process so correctly that the ballot rejection rate is lower? Were the standards altered? That’s fine with me.…

> How do we have a higher mail in ballot rejection rate in non-pandemic times than we do in pandemic times?

Probably because the rejection rate is exaggerated in normal times because the population that relies on absentee voting in regular times is less able to produce consistent signatures.

Also probably because a lot more effort (both official government and outside organization) went into educating people on the rules for mail-in ballots.

> And then follow up, if we assume incredible voter turnout, how do many of these first time mail in ballots follow the process so correctly that the ballot rejection rate is lower?

That's not a follow-up, it's just rephrasing the exact same question with different and more extensive framing commentary.

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#863

https://www.engadget.com/youtube-election-misinformation-dem... So, i'm kind of curious how it's reasonable a political party can ask for partisan censorship. >YouTube CEO Susan Wojcicki received a letter on Tuesday from four Democratic senators expressing “deep concern” over the spread of election misinformation on Google’s video platform. In the letter, senators Robert Menendez of New Jersey, Mazie Hirono of Hawaii…

It's a tricky area. The challenge is how to deal with bad actors who use the rules of the game to undermine the game itself.

We also have to acknowledge the context in which this is occurring; the people claiming fraud are also threatening violence against civil servants and their children.

"Georgia officials were similarly reticent until last week, when threats online targeted a young contract worker for Dominion Voting Systems, whose voting machines were used in the state. One post on Twitter included a swinging noose.

That day, Gabriel Sterling, the Republican in charge of the voting machines, walked to a podium visibly angry and demanded that Trump “stop inspiring people to commit potential acts of violence.”

In an interview with Reuters, Sterling said that he personally had received a message calling him a him “traitor” that included his home address. Someone else wished him a happy birthday in a tweet saying it would be his last."

https://www.reuters.com/article/usa-election-threats/electio...

Just like it's difficult when and what content to censor when it comes to things like the ISIS recruiting pipeline, it's hard to know where the line is with what is basically a far-right ideology which bleeds into domestic terrorism.

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#864

This thread is fascinating. Same type of troll/sarcasm/meme comments (e.g. "orange man bad") as you find on Reddit, which are normally absent from HN. This topic clearly brings out the worst no matter where it's discussed.

Any political topic on Hacker News tends to bring out emotionally charged commentary. Anyone going against the prevailing ideology gets voted down into a light gray shade that is almost impossible to read. I love the technology discussions here, but when it comes to sociology and politics and topics like Big Tech censorship, it's tediously one sided.

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#865

If there is to be toleration in the world, one of the things taught in schools must be the habit of weighing evidence, and the practice of not giving full assent to propositions which there is no reason to believe true. For example, the art of reading the newspapers should be taught. The schoolmaster should select some incident which happened a good many years ago, and roused political passions in its day. He should…

Many orthodox people speak as though it were the business of sceptics to disprove received dogmas rather than of dogmatists to prove them. This is, of course, a mistake. If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even…

'It's an important skill to independently discern the likely from the unlikely on your own, but any idea repeated often enough becomes "truth", and it's an important function of society to recognize fake truths and purge them.'

Prove that an important function of society is fake truth purging. And define truth. How big are the fake truths, how much damage do they cause, and how expensive is it to disprove them? If a young child claims that the temperature of a hydrogen atom 52 light years away is 0.1K, but in reality it is 0.01K, shall we:

A. censor the child to stop the spread of misinformation B. print 8 billion flyers to correct anyone who may have overheard the child C. put teams of MIT scientists to run experiments to determine the most recent temperature of the atom D. ignore it E. claim it's 0K according to god's will

In a more practical example, most people are probably split between C, D and E. The C people might land on the moon sooner, the E people might be more fulfilled. D is watching their son's soccer game. Who is "right"?

Acquiring the true "truth" has a cost, and that cost may be too high, and until we have a proper document from god detailing the worth of each person, we can't know who should live and who should die. If we don't produce enough food, somebody will starve. Who should starve? Perhaps the person with the highest metabolism, to spare as much food as possible. Perhaps the dumbest, to ensure future generations aren't crippled and the problem gets solved quicker. Perhaps the meanest, to spare future conflict. Or perhaps future conflict is good, to weed out the weak. "Truth" might mean maximizing human potential, which could imply minimizing human "drag". Spray peanut dust in stadiums! Shoot people who wear glasses! Gene edit everyone to be 9 feet tall! Kill everyone and create and feed a world-spanning singular ultra-brain (skynet?), for _IT_ shall determine "truth".

The word "truth" almost has a political bias to it, belonging to the party of science-people. I say that with a straight face as someone familiar and trusting of mathematics. It's great that we can build F-22s and nukes with it, but, maybe we were better off worshipping Zeus. Actually, people are a relatively new thing, and the main spreaders of "lies". Perhaps the universe was "truer" before people came around. Perhaps birthing a child is to "lie".

And what is the endgame? What happens after our perfect system of rationalism solves every known fact and theoretical possibility in the entire universe? Did we win? Is our final score 42?

Truth is a lie.

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#866

https://www.engadget.com/youtube-election-misinformation-dem... So, i'm kind of curious how it's reasonable a political party can ask for partisan censorship. >YouTube CEO Susan Wojcicki received a letter on Tuesday from four Democratic senators expressing “deep concern” over the spread of election misinformation on Google’s video platform. In the letter, senators Robert Menendez of New Jersey, Mazie Hirono of Hawaii…

This is roughly the equivalent of the yelling "fire" in a crowded theater problem. A lot of these videos are saying things that cannot reasonably be classified as anything other than misinformation. For example, they typically refer to things like mail-in voting as "fraud" to begin with. They also make up vague but scary claims about large numbers of illegal immigrants having voted, etc. All of this has a chilling ef…

I thought America was big on freedom of speech? The misinformation pisses me off too but you can't have it both ways.

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#867

Holy shit, this thread is scary. Sure, there are some implications worth discussing based on this news. However, the number of people directly posting doubts on the election results is way more concerning and shows that Youtube might be doing a good thing in this case.

Your comment is far more alarming than anything these Trumpists have come up with.

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#868

This thread is fascinating. Same type of troll/sarcasm/meme comments (e.g. "orange man bad") as you find on Reddit, which are normally absent from HN. This topic clearly brings out the worst no matter where it's discussed.

Or the commentary is largely coming from those normally absent from HN.

Many of the comments on both sides - although hopefully not most of the worst ones - are from long term contributors.

Many of us try to be reasonable even when we go against the grain here:

Personally I never liked or voted Trump and I trust the American public and American judges more than HN or YouTube.

As an outside observer with contacts on both sides I can see how maddening this must be, so here I am on HN, trying to explain how this feels like for Trump supporters.

Meanwhile I see messages waiting for me on Telegram and I think Instagram from some of those people and I will again tryvto explain them that even if they haven't seen a single Biden supporter for miles it just means they haven't looked in the right places.

But, historically I think being a reasonable person when American elections are discussed on HN is a losing proposition :-)

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#869

I think it's interesting that some folks are calling this government censorship. Obviously, companies can decide what they want to spend money/computing resources/ storage/bandwidth on. I'm not sure why that appears to be contentious. As for senators sending "a strongly worded request" that this material be removed, I'm also puzzled by why people would conflate that with actual governmental censorship. From where I'm…

> As for senators sending "a strongly worded request" that this material be removed, I'm also puzzled by why people would conflate that with actual governmental censorship.

Because Google is under heavy scrutiny and many Republicans want to push for anti-trust and monopoly investigations: a group of Dem politicians saying that they should strongly consider doing what the Dems want sounds similar to when the mob says a business should strongly consider buying their fire-insurance.

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#870

Well, after reading thru the comments I am clearly not the target audience. It was fun while it lasted. Anyone know how I can delete my account? I need to add it to all the other accounts that I have deleted. Good luck to you all. I thought this was a tech news site but apparently most people here seem to be actively working in the investigation process. I don't know WTF has gotten in to everyone but I don't want any…

Contact information on the bottom of the page.

Usually they don't delete content, but if there's personally identifiable information in your username or any of your post I think it might be possible to have them rewrite it.

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