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Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

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Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#861

Post by hsienmaneja »

kylec wrote: post #204
hsienmaneja wrote: post #16

Apple, please put back in full size up and down arrow keys

Put back? They've never had full sized up and down arrow keys on the MacBooks. What I miss are the half-sized left and right keys - the empty space above them made it easy to position my hand over the arrow keys without looking.

Good point, just took a look at the picture of a 2014 mbp which I had previously. Something about the older up/down arrows was much better, and I can’t put my finger on it (literally, since I do not have the 2014 anymore).

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#862

Post by greedo »

spyckie2 wrote: post #52

This is NOT a big issue for consumers. Apple is great at keeping customers happy, their 4 year warranty extension for replacing the keyboard shows this. This IS a business issue. It has a quantifiable effect on profit margins for Apple's macbook, and I would look at it as an investor and see if it effects Apple's valuation in the short and long run. The Note 7 is a fantastic comparison - the complete recall did not h…

Apple didn't extend the warranty four years; the keyboard already has a one year warranty. They extended it an additional 3 years.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#863

Post by isostatic »

maimeowmeow wrote: post #659
DoofusOfDeath wrote: post #633

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume GP was referring to his/her own experience, not everybody's.

Unless op is using the same laptop for years, but if you ever try connecting some new device to your machine, your in for some configuring at least with mint/debian. Linux is still worth the prodiuctivity gains, but sometimes you spend hours cursing your luck. For a short list off the top of my head. Plugging in certain android phones, usb wifi, monitors not detected, monitors being forgotten, grub conflicts after wi…

> Plugging in certain android phones

I don't have them, but then I don't do anything with phones over usb other than charge them

> usb wifi

It's built in (as is 4g, although I now tether on my phone)

> monitors not detected, monitors being forgotten

I've used an external monitor rarely, I don't recall any issues. I've seem people using external monitors on their macs and windows laptops, they often seem to have major problems.

> grub conflicts after windows updates

So a windows bug then. As I don't run windows that's not really a problem.

> graphic cards drivers in messed up after apt upgrade shenanigans

I run an LTS version of ubuntu, went from 8.04 to 12.04 to 16.04 -- took the opportunity to replace my SSD for something a little larger. Next time will be 20.04, but at that stage I think the laptop will really be due for a replacement.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#864

Post by devxpy »

sanderjd wrote: post #785
fhood wrote: post #749

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally praying that they fix this crap in the next update. My mbp is getting on in years, and if they don't do something I'm going to move to linux for my next machine.

Maybe this is a market opportunity for somebody to build a laptop with high end components (monitor, keyboard, touchpad) running a super-duper-well-integrated linux.

Not sure about Linux but the surface book 2 is a really good one.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#865

Post by pjlegato »

AsyncAwait wrote: post #855
pjlegato wrote: post #838

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly why Linux isn't more widely used: most business and professional users regard "switching to a different window manager in order to work around repeated graphics glitches" as a dealbreaker-level problem in a tool they use for their work. It's supposed to be an appliance that gets out of the way and enables higher level work, not a fascinating engineering project. The tool should _just work_, all the ti…

I like how you take one particular anecdote and use it as representative; I have had pretty bad graphics glitches on a 2017 MBP at work, unless I disable graphics switching, which kills the battery. Conclusion: macOS suffers from severe graphics glitches and has terrible battery life. /s

I have personally used Linux on the desktop and the server for many years. I know many other engineers who have also done this, and we've compared notes extensively on the topic. Sadly, this anecdote is not an anomaly, but a fully typical example of the broad experience.

It is, if anything, a rather too mild example of the general class.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#866

Post by isostatic »

solatic wrote: post #706
isostatic wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We all lose in the long run. Those companies all existed in 2005, but Apple was streets ahead of them for the average person. Apple pushed the industry forward. Remember what the typical phone was like before the iphone? Or the typical mp3 player before the ipod? Sure, the ipod may have had less space than a Nomad and no wifi, but it was what people actually wanted. The question is, is apple really going backwards, o…

People wouldn't be so up in arms about MagSafe vs. USB-C if they had a choice, either by both ports being on the laptop or by being able to choose one or the other when the laptop is ordered. You can classify MacBook users into two groups: people who hook up their laptops to lots of stuff, and people who don't. The people who hook up their laptop to lots of stuff are the kind of people who get to work, hook up their…

Which means that the question isn't whether USB-C is a regression over MagSafe or not, it's whether you belong to Apple's core market segment and fit into Apple's core product strategy, which holds that the word "regression" is simply not part of the vocabulary used in the conversation revolving around Apple's products

Yes, this.

It's odd though, the apple ecosystem has "always worked" if you stuck with it, where linux and windows have needed various amounts of firtling (customising your workspace, switching etc)

People who plug in perhiphials seem to be against what I understood apple's view to be. I guess they want those of us who just have a laptop and don't connect anything up to be using ipads instead (perhaps that explains their choice to downgrade the keyboard --- you either dock into a fixed workstation with a decent keyboard, or you use a touchscreen. Eventually I wouldn't be surprised if the keyboard is completely removed from apple laptops. And we'll all be shocked. )

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#867

Post by SomeHacker44 »

isostatic wrote: post #505
garganzol wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At same boat as you, and just have migrated all my activities to Windows on 64 Gb Core i7 8 gen CPU desktop. It's a real booster for my day to day work. I love and miss the aesthetics of macOS and Magic Mouse swipes. However let's face it, Apple alone cannot stand the pace. It just cannot compete with hordes of companies from all over the world who do their part of job really really good. Gigabyte, ASUS, Samsung, Int…

We all lose in the long run. Those companies all existed in 2005, but Apple was streets ahead of them for the average person. Apple pushed the industry forward. Remember what the typical phone was like before the iphone? Or the typical mp3 player before the ipod? Sure, the ipod may have had less space than a Nomad and no wifi, but it was what people actually wanted. The question is, is apple really going backwards, o…

I never had a MagSafe laptop whacked off a table and I had them since introduction. It has happened at least once a year with my USB-C MacBooks Pro. What a silly own-goal.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#868

Post by coldtea »

throwaway2048 wrote: post #849
coldtea wrote: post #842

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem confused. a) "clearly being an asshole makes me steve jobs right" I never claimed any causative chain of that sort. I said that thinner continued to sold in droves, not that making something thin necessarily will make it sold. b) "or at least it cant hurt! right?" That's closer to what I said, which is the continuously thinner products never hurt Apple's sales. And to answer your question, yes, obviously it…

Or you know, it actually held him back, but not enough to make him unsucessful?

Not really. It's somewhat established that there are more psychopaths as CEOs than in the general population, suggesting it's a good trait to help one "make it".

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/mar/15/silicon-v...

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#869

Post by bookofjoe »

yellowapple wrote: post #816
ravenstine wrote: post #795

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (the now defunct) Steve Jobs That's one way to refer to a dead guy.

This is my new favorite euphemism for death. "Deceased" just sounds boring. "Defunct" has a certain weight to it.

Buffalo Bill's defunct https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/47244/buffalo-bill-s

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#870

Post by wutbrodo »

lmm wrote: post #550
wutbrodo wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe Thinkpads are famously easy to make work with Linux. I had one in college (a decade ago) and an x1 carbon when I was at Google (several years ago) and both of them were excellent (though the latter obviously would've had any kinks ironed out by the Goobuntu team). My last couple laptops had better hardware (for my needs) than ThinkPads or Macbooks, but the occasional compatibility issue is enough that I'm t…

The old, IBM-made Thinkpads were. AIUI it's not really so true of the modern Lenovo ones.

All the ones I've had (and all the references I've read about their compatibility) have been during the Lenovo period, I believe.
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