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Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

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Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#861

Post by rhizome »

lbriner wrote: post #834
acconrad wrote: post #129

I was the first engineer at a TechStars startup that did have a successful exit (I was there about 5 years before the exit). If there is something I want YC to know, it's this: You helped create the culture of founder empowerment. You have the power to evolve that narrative to those that sacrifice as early employees. Tell the world that early employees deserve a lot more equity. Tell the world that early employees co…

Not everybody that is an early employee adds to the company value! Some people are not so bad they get fired but they are living off of other people's input. Before you start giving away more equity to early employees, you need to seriously think about how you are going to make the employee earn that e.g. if they leave before 3 years, they lose it, if they fail appraisals, they lose it etc. Many companies go bad beca…

Many companies go bad because they do give away too much equity then there's not enough left for subsequent raises

Citation please, because this sounds outlandish.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#862

Post by warcher »

shamino wrote: post #622
warcher wrote: post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree- I’m really good. They just have a very large hammer they swing. Anybody can get good results with the resources they bring to bear. Getting good results with jack shit takes talent, haha. The answer is not and will never be writing bigger checks with money you don’t have. It’s getting real up close and personal with your team and figuring out a way for everybody to win. If folks want to ride my ride, that…

True, but you don't have anything a big company doesn't have, or can't have. Therefore, to differentiate yourself from your talent going to FAANG, you need to provide more equity to early employees than what is the status quo. They joined your startup for risk, and your rewards need to match up with that risk. A large company has professional development, a great lifestyle, and mentorship. What they don't have is hug…

People think they want the equity but they absolutely do not. They may want something for nothing, certainly plenty of folks are interested in that, but you don’t really understand the devils bargain until you’ve made it.

I know what I’m doing. Been at it for years. It works for everybody. There are so many people who deserve a shot but will never get one, if you’re willing to dig and develop there is no shortage.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#863

Post by s2g »

acconrad wrote: post #129

I was the first engineer at a TechStars startup that did have a successful exit (I was there about 5 years before the exit). If there is something I want YC to know, it's this: You helped create the culture of founder empowerment. You have the power to evolve that narrative to those that sacrifice as early employees. Tell the world that early employees deserve a lot more equity. Tell the world that early employees co…

Why wouldn't you have beef with the founders? Their decisions left them rich and you with nothing in exchange for years of your life lived with excessive risk and a lower standard of living.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#864

Post by s2g »

hobofan wrote: post #740
anonu wrote: post #654

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Be a founder, even if you have no experience. Easier said than done. Lots of people leave school without the faintest clue what they want to do. Getting a job somewhere gives people training and experience and maybe even credibility before they strike it out on their own.

Me and my previous co-founder founded a startup with both of us having no experience. It was a very bad decision for the company, but extremely valuable for our personal growth. It also allowed us to skip the biggest parts of the usual career ladder. It's certainly not the best route for everyone, but definitely one worth considering.

Con of startups, these are the people you might end up working for.

What's good for your personal growth was other people trying to make a living at a company being run by people who don't know what they are doing. Maybe it's fine, but that level of uncertainty is definitely a con.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#865

Post by s2g »

acconrad wrote: post #567
biztos wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's an "early employee" for you? (That is, who gets "a lot more equity?") I ask because I've noticed with some high-dollar acquisitions a lot of times "engineer #50" makes his/her "F-You Money" on the acquisition, but having been "engineer #2" and "#4" and even "#1" (sadly, no big exits) I am skeptical that #50 took on much more risk or contributed more than, say, #200.

Pre-series A. Once Series A comes into play, you can get paid "market" - which is to say, the normal rate outside of FAANG.

So anyone who is good enough to work for a big company you have no interest in?

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#866

Post by s2g »

alfredallan1 wrote: post #640
acconrad wrote: post #568

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most companies don't give 50% raises when you finally raise money (which is to say, most companies won't simply bring you up to market if you came in super early).

No, but if you came in super early, wouldn’t you have (negotiated at the start) more equity anyways? A super early employee with decent equity ought to be treated as a late stage founder - so if the founders don’t take 50% raises, neither should the super early employee with decent equity. It would of course be silly for someone super early to not negotiate significantly more equity than the usual couple of basis poi…

They aren't treated as founders of any sort. They get paltry equity and then don't get raises.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#867

Post by s2g »

rgossiaux wrote: post #656
kentonv wrote: post #633

As a former startup founder, I tend to agree that most startups are low-balling early employees. These employees over-value their stock by imagining what it would be worth if the company reaches $1B valuation. It really is a lottery ticket. But in my opinion, the answer is more pay, not more equity. Employees should get market comp, period. Doesn't matter how early-stage the startup is. If a founder can't afford empl…

I don't quite understand. On the one hand you're saying that early employees should "demand market comp" and on the other you're saying that equity basically doesn't matter (and if you feel this way, it doesn't really make any sense to be joining a startup anyway). Are you conflating "compensation" with "salary"? "Market comp" for a good engineer with several years of experience in the Bay Area is something like 250k…

> in expectation earn at least the same as they would at a public company

No, it should be multiples. Otherwise why is the employee taking on that risk?

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#868

Post by jacquesm »

acconrad wrote: post #129

I was the first engineer at a TechStars startup that did have a successful exit (I was there about 5 years before the exit). If there is something I want YC to know, it's this: You helped create the culture of founder empowerment. You have the power to evolve that narrative to those that sacrifice as early employees. Tell the world that early employees deserve a lot more equity. Tell the world that early employees co…

The thing to really appreciate is you are one of the ones that got lucky. The majority would not be able to recoup the money they would have made by not working for a start-up.

Essentially a start-up is a school, don't join if you don't intend to learn a lot while getting paid a little so that if one day you want to do a start-up of your own you will at least be a little bit prepared.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#869

Post by lgregg »

awad wrote: post #855
lgregg wrote: post #852

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks! What’s a way I can contact you? I’d love to learn about what’s out there. If you don’t want to post here then you can email me at “lassitergregg” at gmail.

In the bio :)

I checked there initially but it was empty and still is: https://www.dropbox.com/s/g8uodwa450lw0lh/Screen%20Shot%2020...

:(

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#870

Post by masonicb00m »

snowmaker wrote: post #251
mariusz331 wrote: post #216

I'd like to recommend something: discourage 1-year cliffs in vesting schedules. I recently joined a BigCo where your stock vests monthly as soon as you start. I felt comfortable accepting that offer because I knew I could quit without leaving money on the table if I hated it. Before BigCo, I was at a YC startup for 8 months that I disliked working at, but felt that I needed to hit the 1-year mark for the equity. That…

That's an interesting proposal that we will discuss. Thanks.

I second eliminating the one year cliff. This is becoming market-standard. And not just for the employee's benefit. It's a lot easier to tell management their heads are up their asses when you're vested. Good for the company.
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