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Amazon Go

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Re: Amazon Go

#861

Post by drakenot »

crazypyro wrote: post #429
delegate wrote: post #387

Look, I know this might not be a popular view here on HN, but I think this is useless. And bad. I'm not talking about the technology behind it (I think it's an amazing achievement).. I live in Barcelona and I have at least 5 medium-sized supermarkets within 5 minutes walking distance from my home. Plus there are several smaller shops that sell fruits and vegetables. I know all the people who work in these supermarket…

Trying to save jobs that are no longer the most efficient way of solving a problem is not the way to promote the value of humanity, in my opinion. People want groceries as cheap and fast as possible. They don't go to the grocery store for social interaction and forcing the majority of people to pay extra for something that only the minority get value out of is not a competitive strategy. If humanity were to take your…

I mostly agree. Take the parent's argument and replace grocery store clerk with gas station pump attendant.

"I know all the people who work in these gas stations. The attendant at the pump always whistles a quiet song while he pumps my gas. He knows my son and is always nice and friendly."

Yet, besides the completely weird laws in New Jersey and Oregon, society has moved on and people now pump their own gas.

I understand the parent's post point to some degree. I don't want a cold a sterile society where no one never interacts with anyone any longer. However, I also get stuck in grocery store lines all the time. It would be a net win for me to skip these lines all together even if the places I shop at become a little more impersonal.

At least in the United States, places have continued to staff less and less cashiers and have relied more and more on self-checkout. So, for many of these stores, it isn't like I'm missing out on any real connection. This just seems like a way less stressful self-checkout.

Apple lets you check yourself out using their app at the Apple Store but I rarely do this because I feel like I'm shoplifting or that people are watching me suspiciously. I'm curious if I would have that same reaction to these stores or not. I'm guessing not, because it is the only way to pay.

Re: Amazon Go

#862

Post by rtkwe »

gamegoblin wrote: post #9
jakozaur wrote: post #2

Wow. So groceries without checkout. I thought that at some point RFID would replace barcodes providing similar experience. However, this system claim to be based on cameras and image recognition.

If it truly is based on cameras and image recognition, that would allow them to roll out to already-existing stores pretty easily. That way they could market the infrastructure rather than build their own stores, which I imagine is less risky and more lucrative.

It could but it looks like it might require the shelves to be well organized and relatively static. It also can't really deal with fresh produce and other unpackaged goods or by weight items.

Re: Amazon Go

#863

Post by robryan »

dingaling wrote: post #194
BjoernKW wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesco also has pushed self scanning tills for years now. However, the number of employees working at the cash register is still the same because those scanners sometimes do not work and most importantly their user experience is deplorable. So, you frequently have to ask someone for help (and I'm in my mid-thirties and very tech-savvy. I can only imagine how someone twice my age would feel when using these scanners).

> However, the number of employees working at the cash register is still the same Actually the ratio of staff:active-self-checkout machines is planned to reduce in each new deployment as customers become accustomed to the machines. Starts around 1:2 and usually sits around 1:4 with a target of 1:8 or even 1:12 at quiet times. That's definitely a reduction in cashiers since the machines displace existing check-out lin…

Similar at supermarkets in Australia, one staff member could be watching over about 12 self checkouts. They still offer regular registers for people with a lot of stuff and people that don't like self checkout.

The machines are good enough now that I almost never get stuck, although some people are a lot more prone to needing staff assistance to complete checkout.

Re: Amazon Go

#864

Post by usrusr »

delegate wrote: post #387

Look, I know this might not be a popular view here on HN, but I think this is useless. And bad. I'm not talking about the technology behind it (I think it's an amazing achievement).. I live in Barcelona and I have at least 5 medium-sized supermarkets within 5 minutes walking distance from my home. Plus there are several smaller shops that sell fruits and vegetables. I know all the people who work in these supermarket…

'Harmful' might be a more appropriate description than 'useless'. Losing the last of tiny interactions throws is deeper and deeper into filter bubbles and echo chambers.

But I am guilty of sacrificing them for convenience myself, e.g. I tend to avoid the cheese counter at the supermarket in favor of prepackaged stuff from self-serve shelves. Removing final checkout is just more of the same.

At least Amazon seem to be trying to the robomarket with a permanent all-seeing-AI installation instead of the not too unrecent consensus prediction of RFID on every single bar of gum and on every piece of fruit. Much better to talk about social implications than about technicalities in RFID surveillance.

Re: Amazon Go

#865

Post by DashRattlesnake »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #302
DashRattlesnake wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, that's an "incentive" that should be illegal. You should only get charged for something if you actually take it home or use it. Anything else is a cop out to push the costs of a deficient system onto the user/customer.

Why? If it's understood that the way the system works is that it's in your 'virtual cart' as soon as you take it off the shelf, why isn't it the customer's job to put it back if they don't want it anymore? There are other checkoutless systems that use the customer scanning a barcode as they pick up each item; same deal there.

Why is it the customer's responsibility to figure out and comply with the rules of your (nonstandard) system to avoid getting charged for something they don't intend to buy and didn't in fact use or take out of the store?

There are all kinds of reasons why that is unreasonable:

* different stores might have systems with different rules and policies, causing confusion;

* people may not remember where to return the item;

* the magic machine-learning system might glitch and not recognize the item was replaced, and you probably won't notice since there's little feedback from the "virtual cart" since you're not interacting with it directly;

* another glitch could put another customer's item in your "virtual cart", so you have nothing to return;

* etc.

Systems like this should fail in customer-friendly ways, and "item returned to the wrong place" is a kind of failure.

Re: Amazon Go

#866

Post by makomk »

jpalomaki wrote: post #224
stevenmays wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think RFID tags are too expensive to put on every product. I may be wrong on this.

Quick search on Alibaba shows that on volume these are just $0.01 each (and probably lower when you buy larger volumes). Of course sticking these to each product is inconvenient and I would assume the tags are not yet built in in most grocery product packaging. https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/China-Professional-ma...

Alibaba sellers will list almost anything for $0.01 each, though, regardless of actual selling price.

Re: Amazon Go

#867

Post by rtkwe »

vit05 wrote: post #575

What I do not understand is: Why do they need to know that it was me who got something off the shelf? They need to know when something has left the shelf, so they can refuel, and they need to know when something leaves the store, so they can charge. But do they really need to know when you pull out an item and then give up buying it?

It's kind of the only way to do it without having an RFID tag on everything which would be expensive because they'd have to either special order the items from the manufacturer or apply them themselves both of which are costly. That's one of the major sticking points that has prevented this from showing up in normal grocery stores for years.

Re: Amazon Go

#868

Post by plandis »

Merad wrote: post #86

I hate it when companies offer a "how this works" section that doesn't actually tell you a damned thing about how it works. * How does my Amazon account get associated with the items I take? * How are items detected when leaving the store? If my friend and I walk out side by side, how does it know (if it does) which items are mine and which are hers? * What happens when someone picks up an item and leaves without fir…

Yeah that was pretty terrible. I half expected to hear the word synergy in there somewhere.

Sensor fusion? You mean multiple sensors?

Re: Amazon Go

#869

Post by coryfklein »

delegate wrote: post #387

Look, I know this might not be a popular view here on HN, but I think this is useless. And bad. I'm not talking about the technology behind it (I think it's an amazing achievement).. I live in Barcelona and I have at least 5 medium-sized supermarkets within 5 minutes walking distance from my home. Plus there are several smaller shops that sell fruits and vegetables. I know all the people who work in these supermarket…

I'm sure some old-timers miss chatting up the switchboard operators between phone calls as well, but we're not going back to switchboards anytime soon.

Re: Amazon Go

#870

Post by Balgair »

crazypyro wrote: post #429
delegate wrote: post #387

Look, I know this might not be a popular view here on HN, but I think this is useless. And bad. I'm not talking about the technology behind it (I think it's an amazing achievement).. I live in Barcelona and I have at least 5 medium-sized supermarkets within 5 minutes walking distance from my home. Plus there are several smaller shops that sell fruits and vegetables. I know all the people who work in these supermarket…

Trying to save jobs that are no longer the most efficient way of solving a problem is not the way to promote the value of humanity, in my opinion. People want groceries as cheap and fast as possible. They don't go to the grocery store for social interaction and forcing the majority of people to pay extra for something that only the minority get value out of is not a competitive strategy. If humanity were to take your…

" People want groceries as cheap and fast as possible. They don't go to the grocery store for social interaction and forcing the majority of people to pay extra for something that only the minority get value out of is not a competitive strategy."

crazypyro, you may want to do as Brian Regan said (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8kThoZpF_U ) and pick up some Montana brochures. If you don't have 3-5 minutes in the day to talk to your neighbors, you either need new neighbors or a career change. Life is a lot of things, but it ain't all GSD all the time either.

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