Request For Research: Basic Income • Hacker News Board

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#861

Post by DocFeind » Thu, Jan 28, 2016, 7:41 AM UTC

I would very much like to help with this. Is there a way to contact someone beyond the application? There is no way to provide what I can show in that fashion, but speaking could glean a tale most would find impossible. It's a safe bet I can provide a perspective from more angles into the concept than most if not nearly all.

Be it as the researcher, or an advisor in the truth of the real American demographics, that have next to no chance at success. Few topics ignite a passion in me as much as those surrounding this.

Other than the lifestyle truly rich, I have lived the life of the rest. From barrios then ghettos, homelessness to youth prison, day laborer to small business then tech startup success... In literally every corner of the nation as most every caste... With only an 8th grade education to begin with, a dash of 90s electronics tech school, and self taught for all the rest.

I want to help, just let me know how to explain why, away from public eyes. I make this request, to tell the not for public knowledge story of the rest. Then leave it for you, to allow us, to figure out where to go next.

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#862

Post by DrScump » Thu, Jan 28, 2016, 7:45 AM UTC

selestify wrote: post #617

mkempe wrote: post #614

Not a single comment so far has mentioned Karl Marx. This "research" proposal is merely a technocratic rehash of Marxism: the inexorable forces of materialism and technological improvements entail endless progress driven by a Hegelian spirit. This will free humans from labor and eliminate the power of capital. Thus, somehow, unlimited production will enable people to live according to the motto "from each according t…

The Soviet Union did pretty well in its early years, with GDP growth faster than that of the US for a time. Cuba is still doing pretty well compared to similar Latin American countries at the time of the Cuban revolution. Don't know too much about the others.

What are you calling the "early years"? Major famines in 1921-2 and 1932-3 killed tens of millions.

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#863

Post by efoto » Thu, Jan 28, 2016, 7:48 AM UTC

throwawaytime wrote: post #632

mijustin wrote: post #583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Financial desperation squeezes the cognitive juice right out of you. In 2013, Harvard researchers did a study of how financial stress affects decision making. Denise Cummins, Ph.D. explains their findings in Psychology Today: "When the cost of [a car] repair was increased to $3,000, a very different picture emerged: The cognitive performance of those at the upper end of the income distribution was unaffected by the i…

"When the cost of [a car] repair was increased to $3,000, the cognitive performance of those at the upper end of the income distribution was unaffected by the increase. But those at the lower end suffered a 40% decline! The authors interpreted this to mean that scarcity impaired people’s ability to think clearly. The threat—even an imagined threat—of a large bill made it difficult for poor people to focus on the cogn…

> due to being unable to participate in the 9 to 5 that society expects

As some already mentioned, you are likely covered by ADA - if your company is larger than 15 employees.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_sleep_phase_disorder

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#864

Post by dmichulke » Thu, Jan 28, 2016, 7:50 AM UTC

There will be a big questions to answer:

Will the basic income be paid in addition to standard gov't subsidies?

If yes, how do you make up for the shortfall of money? "Taxing the rich" is nice in theory but IMHO it doesn't work right now, what are you going to do to change that?

If no, it might be worth it, if you also fire the bureaucrats currently working on gov't subsidies (freeing up the money thereby) But I don't see how your study will account for this, nor do I think this is feasible because gov't tends to increase in size and has no incentive to decrease. Other beneificial aspects would be decreasing the size of the code of law and forcing "social security lawyers" to specialize in something else, reducing costs of all other lawyers. Again, it will be hard to put it in practice and difficult to account for in your study.

I suppose you also have already read some literature on the topic. From my personal viewpoint I'd recommend "Economics in one Lesson" by Hazlitt [0], it's decidedly non-mainstream and I wonder if it's taught at all in universities today but the only economic theory based on game theory (although not explicitly) and fully consistent IMHO.

I also believe that funding a multi-agent simulation is probably cheaper for a few economic models (I'd volunteer here)

Finally, I see some business value here, namely studying whether it would make sense to fund persons instead of start-ups, as e.g. Entrepreneur First does [1] (I have no affiliation)

[0] http://www.hacer.org/pdf/Hazlitt00.pdf [1] http://www.joinef.com/

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#865

Post by lucaspiller » Thu, Jan 28, 2016, 7:51 AM UTC

branchless wrote: post #598

Eridrus wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of basic income, fixing housing is super important since it's one of the biggest drains on everyone's income and the fixed nature of it suggests that just giving everyone more money will cause a lot of that money to just end up in landlord's pockets. I think a lot of the change must be policy change though and cannot be purely free-market oriented since there is a public interest in seeing more housing sto…

So much this. We've see this over and over. If we get more productive the rentiers take it. We need to squash the rentier starting with land value tax. And stop taxing labour. Then you have the true choice because you can achieve financial autonomy through work and then tell the man where he can stick his job if he refuses to pass on enough of your value added. Cheaper land will see less people forced to work which w…

I'd say the housing problem in the UK is a lot worse than the US, at the average income (£26,500) you won't be able to afford a house in 91% of the country:

http://www.theguardian.com/society/ng-interactive/2015/sep/0...

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#866

Post by kriro » Thu, Jan 28, 2016, 7:52 AM UTC

Some thoughts that are not related to the topic of research but rather the program:

- I love the idea of YC sponsoring research.

- Some more information about the program itself would be helpful. 5 years is long for a research program. What does this cover? Income for the researcher, other costs, are they required to live in SV or maybe somewhere else?

- Where are the sponsored basic income people supposed to live/how will they be selected? Any plans for this already?

- (!) Important: Please make it a requirement for the research to be as open as possible. Require datasets to be made available and all publications to be made available online (if journals/conferences make sure they have Open Access). Also make the research process as open as possible.

- Consider making the application process as open as possible, too. Publish the materials/proposal that was submitted by the "winner". Possibly publish unsuccessful applications with some comments as well. I know that this isn't going to be a high priority but there's a distinct lack of feedback for unsuccessful grant proposals in science.

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#867

Post by DoubleExpat » Thu, Jan 28, 2016, 7:55 AM UTC

Basic income exists already in several European countries. For example in Germany you get for half a year after loosing a job about 75% of your last salary. After six months it degrades but you will always be supplied with a home, food, cloths and some little money to spend.

In France you get paid for two years after loosing your job. In Denmark I think it is three or four year even. Enough time to start three or four startups.

Would be interesting to look into the data of these countries.

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#868

Post by tajen » Thu, Jan 28, 2016, 8:04 AM UTC

DoubleExpat wrote: post #867

Basic income exists already in several European countries. For example in Germany you get for half a year after loosing a job about 75% of your last salary. After six months it degrades but you will always be supplied with a home, food, cloths and some little money to spend. In France you get paid for two years after loosing your job. In Denmark I think it is three or four year even. Enough time to start three or fou…

In France, 2 years at 80% of your original salary (unemployment benefits). AND after that, you get the basic income ("RSA" +APL) of 650€/month (which is 60% of minimum salary, or 40% of median income). The amount varies depending on your housing situation and city. Source: I was on RSA for a year when I created my startup.

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#869

Post by lucaspiller » Thu, Jan 28, 2016, 8:18 AM UTC

surfmike wrote: post #97

"What can startups do to increase prosperity for everyone?" I think cheap quality housing is a huge area that would help everyone. Taxes and housing together eat up the vast majority of the earnings most people make. What could make a difference? - applying technology to building denser housing. for example, imagine cheap robotic excavation, so every house and building could bury all their parking lots and long term…

> applying technology to building denser housing [...]

The technology for this isn't anything new, the first underground carparks opened in 1930s [0][1]. It's not so much a technology problem as it is a people problem. People (NIMBYs, the middle classes) don't want massive blocks of housing in the middle of their cities, and what is being built 'affordably' is tiny and/or poor quality (in the UK at least). [2]

[0] http://www.1066online.co.uk/hastings-history/hastings-town/c...

[1] http://www.nailhed.com/2015/05/the-worlds-first-underground-...

[2] http://www.propertywire.com/news/europe/new-homes-uk-poll-20...

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#870

Post by baddox » Thu, Jan 28, 2016, 8:21 AM UTC

ollifi wrote: post #846

andrewjl wrote: post #783

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a theory that making education free and universally accessible, meaning anyone who is willing to put in the time can get a bachelor's degree in any major they want, would remove the majority of the signaling effect that a 4 year degree has. There would still be some signaling from holders of elite college degrees, but I argue that it is a separate problem. I do agree with you in principle about the HR director…

Coming from a place with free university education I don't think that is right. More accessible university education, more people get university education, this raises the bar in all fields. HR still prefers somebody who went through the trouble of getting the paper as it signals putting the effort in. Now many jobs that previosly didn't need university education have such applicants and it becomes more mandatory to…

The signaling from a college degree comes directly and only from the fact that getting that degree is difficult. If you make getting the degree easier, you reduce the efficacy of the signal (assuming all the relevant people are aware of the change in difficulty). Of course, employers could start looking at other things, like grades or other academic achievements, to use as new signals.