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Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

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Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#851

Post by kjsingh »

DangerousPie wrote: post #45

I am a strong supporter of gay marriage, but I have to say that I find this very unfortunate and worrying. Apparently many Mozilla supporters seem to think it is okay to bully a qualified person out of his job only for his political views, even if they had absolutely no effect on his qualification or his actions on the job. I can't help but feel like this campaign has done a lot more harm to him than his $1000 donati…

Agreed. And this way we are surely not helping him change his views. Or be more inclusive.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#852

Post by shinratdr »

DangerousPie wrote: post #45

I am a strong supporter of gay marriage, but I have to say that I find this very unfortunate and worrying. Apparently many Mozilla supporters seem to think it is okay to bully a qualified person out of his job only for his political views, even if they had absolutely no effect on his qualification or his actions on the job. I can't help but feel like this campaign has done a lot more harm to him than his $1000 donati…

> I am a strong supporter of gay marriage

I'm sorry, but this simply isn't true. I would argue the very first criteria for someone who "strong[ly]" supports gay marriage would be that they consider it a civil rights issue and not a political one.

Bigotry isn't a sacrosanct opinion, and just because politicians have debated about it doesn't make an issue solely political.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#853

Post by 6cxs2hd6 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #820
6cxs2hd6 wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, with respect to civil rights, acts of omission matter >= acts of commission. Therefore the POTUS withholding support is a far, far greater impact than some dude contributing $1000. Yet I imagine a super-majority of the people pitchforking Eich also voted for Obama. Whatever justifications they had -- "lesser of two evils", "he's right about most other things" -- should apply to both people. But of course th…

> Actually, with respect to civil rights, acts of omission matter >= acts of commission. No, I think actually using (or advocating using) power of government to discriminate is a bigger problem than merely failing to oppose such abuses, though both are bad. But, in any case, this is irrelevant because: > Therefore the POTUS withholding support On Prop. 8, the President didn't withhold support from the side that Eich…

Well I believe it was just under 2 years ago, May 2012, that Obama first said that he personally approved of it -- but still thought it should be left up to the states. Text and video: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/dissecting-president-oba...

Even if he also said Prop 8 is bad (?), I think overall he has withheld far more than $1000 worth of support for marriage equality.

I don't understand people who are willing to overlook that in Obama's case, but not Eich's. Not only is that inconsistent, it's even more confusing when you consider that Obama was elected to represent people's views on political matters, but Eich was not.

I voted for Obama. I deeply support marriage equality. I don't know Eich well at all, but if the Mozilla board thought he was qualified to lead the organization I think he should get more than 2 weeks to demonstrate that. (Also at this point some board members ought to resign, because they've demonstrated they can't handle one of their few non-trivial responsibilities.)

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#854

Post by eropple »

Spooky23 wrote: post #683
eropple wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But he is being judged by his actions, because his actions suck. His actions like donating a grand to these jerks, like donating money to other jerks like Pat "our promiscuous homosexuals appear literally Hell-bent on Satanism and suicide" Buchanan. He has a history of badness and it's catching up to him. Though, honestly, the Pat Buchanan donation bothers me even more than the Prop 8 one; donating money to Pat Bucha…

Says you. I would rather work with and disagree with someone who has the integrity to stand by what they believe. I work in a group with folks of Indian decent from different religious backgrounds (Islamic, Hindu, Catholic), an Orthodox Jew, a bunch of Irish catholic types (including myself), and a person from Nigeria. We are literally from many corners of the earth, with different backgrounds, traditions, etc. If we…

> Part of democracy and free society is that we need to get past those differences.

Nobody's saying he can't believe what he wants to believe. Nobody. But he is not allowed to hurt people because he doesn't like that some dudes like other dudes, do you get me? Are you reading me, Major Tom? Hurtful jerks don't get to run nonprofits dedicated to being good to everybody and if they're appointed to do so in what we view as contravention of the organization's core principles we are totally free to refuse to do business with them. If Eich doesn't like that, all he had to do was not be an hurtful jerk. Or, that being in the past, apologize for being wrong. If he can't do that, if he thinks hurting people is OK and that he was justified, then yes, it is entirely cromulent to use our freedom of association to have nothing to do with his--because it is his--organization.

You can complain about slippery slopes all you want, but from where I sit the calculus is not hard: you don't get to hurt people who aren't hurting you. Punching downward is disgusting and Eich did to do that. Eich chose to do it publicly, too. And Eich is reaping his very just rewards for his behavior. Nobody's telling you that you can't have your religious beliefs but the day you start hurting people who've done nothing to you based on your religious beliefs you have crossed a line. I don't do business with most businesses with leaders whose behavior I find repugnant, and the few I do I do because I have no other choice.

(If they show a renewed commitment to their principles--and I have every confidence they will because they have so many good people working for them--I'll go back, because they have a browser I like more and I appreciate their stated goals even if they misstepped here.)

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#855

Post by uchi »

wpietri wrote: post #787
uchi wrote: post #704

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Changing your views, and admitting you were wrong is the best thing you can do. Dude, what? What if he doesn't feel it was wrong? Furthermore, who the fuck cares what he believes and what he spends his money on in his own PRIVATE time? That's COMPLETELY outside of his job at the Mozilla foundation which he's been working at just fine for 15 fucking years. Your comment genuinely irritates me.

If the view is that some of the people you will soon be boss of are not deserving of the same civil rights as everybody else, then that is entirely relevant to his job. Because those employees would have a reasonable fear of discriminatory treatment.

...but they haven't had a fear of discriminatory treatment since he's...a fucking founder of mozilla and worked at the company for 15 years and lead many projects.

If there was a fear of discriminatory treatment, we would've heard about it much sooner.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#856

Post by shinratdr »

Touche wrote: post #343
arrrg wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curb stomp? Rub it in their face? What are you talking about? Eich never said that he was wrong. That’s his prerogative – he can have that opinion – but I’m not sure why anyone would forgive someone who isn’t even asking for forgiveness. I’m really all for forgiving mistakes and being graceful. There is no reason to rub someone’s past mistakes in their face when they already admitted to making a mistake. Humans screw…

Ask yourself this. What is the victory here? Is gay marriage, or equality in general, now going in a different direction because Eich was forced to resign? Can you come up with any positive effect of this controversy? If the answer is no, and I believe it is, then I don't think you can call any of this graceful.

Any positive effect? Of course. It's now far less safe to donate to anti-gay marriage causes while also being a public figure. Public figures shape public opinion and societal norms. Ergo, a net gain for gay marriage and a net loss for public funding of bigotry.

Is it the most monumental gain ever, or the cause for a "different direction" for gay marriage? Of course not, few things are. It's a war made up of small battles, and small victories that add up. That's how societal change works.

Since we're just throwing questions, here is one for you: How exactly do you think most societal change occurs?

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#857

Post by ebfe »

dopamean wrote: post #131
DangerousPie wrote: post #45

I am a strong supporter of gay marriage, but I have to say that I find this very unfortunate and worrying. Apparently many Mozilla supporters seem to think it is okay to bully a qualified person out of his job only for his political views, even if they had absolutely no effect on his qualification or his actions on the job. I can't help but feel like this campaign has done a lot more harm to him than his $1000 donati…

I generally agree with you but I think the problem here is that being against gay marriage is more than just a "political view." Being for low taxes is a political view. Being for smaller government is a political view. Believing a certain group of people don't deserve to live their lives like other simply because of who they love is not a political view. It reads as extremely hateful and that makes people uncomforta…

Low taxes?! You want to cut funding for the social programs that are the only thing giving LGBT folks a shot at surviving in this oppressive, heteronormative world?!?

That's not a political belief, that's saying that people should starve in the streets simply because of who they love.

Any CEO who supports lower taxes is clearly hateful, and needs to resign.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#858

Post by richardjs »

tbassetto wrote: post #428
camus2 wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

source?

Got the info by email from a trusted source (I have been a Mozilla contributor)

It's also mentioned on his blog, or at least the statement "I’ve resigned as CEO and I’m leaving Mozilla to take a rest..." [1]. Doesn't explicitly say he's never coming back, but certainly says he's leaving Mozilla for a time.

[1] https://brendaneich.com/2014/04/the-next-mission/

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#860

Post by ryanwhitney »

Let's watch a speech by Tim Cook. http://business.time.com/2013/12/15/apple-ceo-tim-cook-gives...

A quote he mentions: "Each time a man stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope, and those ripples build a current which can sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and resistance."

This is progress. This is the exact opposite of Eich's actions. Sure, he stood up for his "ideal" and didn't back down, but he objectively hurt others. Opinions, fine. But Eich took actions to hold others back. Along with those who tried to deny interracial marriage in the past, he stands on the wrong side of history. There is no lynch mob--just other folks on the internet who have the right to speak against those committing actions of hatred.

"Basic human rights. Basic human dignity."

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