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The PyCon Incident

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Re: The PyCon Incident

#851

Post by afqwerqeq »

h2s wrote: post #802
wpietri wrote: post #632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi, Tom. I have talked to actual women who tell me this. Why do you, as a guy, feel qualified to invalidate their experiences? I don't think Adira felt immediate fear for her physical safety, no. But I do think fear of sexual harassment and sexual violence are an important reason why it is very important that "harmless" sexualization of professional situations isn't harmless at all.

Just FYI: There are those of us reading this who understand your comments and agree wholeheartedly. The difficulty I think you're facing here in getting this point across is that people are angry right now. Angry mob mode is very much enabled, and it's a mode which reduces people's ability to empathise and change their minds. Kudos for trying though.

Not everyone who disagrees with you is angry and irrational. I'm very calm, but I think you're wrong. Just because someone got offended, that doesn't make it everyone else's problem. Publishing photos of people along with transcripts of their private conversation is highly intrusive, and should only be done in extreme circumstances. A dick joke does not qualify.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#852

Post by frankblizzard »

katbyte wrote: post #812
shardling wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your link is (was) 404. Anyway, I frankly don't give a damn whether Adria is a good person or not. People are criticizing her for a specific set of actions that don't seem to be in line with what actually happened. It exposes a lot of sloppy, biased thinking that is the real problem here. :(

I think the majority of criticism is that she escalated things so rapidly to publicly shaming people who didn't deserve it costing a man his job over a silly dick joke that that majority of women wouldn't have batted an eye over. If she didn't publicly identify him, no one would have cared. If she had simply notified the conference staff, no one would have cared. She took it to extremes, and now the internet is respo…

the question is what is worse - making an inmature dick joke or uploading a picture of someone and expose and discredit him publicly to thousands of people. I think with that action she did herself and her company a disservice. maybe taking the feminism thing too serious? https://securecdn.disqus.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/457/3...

Re: The PyCon Incident

#853

Post by manish_gill »

mwetzler wrote: post #307

Not mentioned is the fact that Adria has received a FLOOD of hateful, violent, racist, and misogynistic comments as a result of a _tweet_. Adria DID NOT get someone fired. She tweeted a picture and comments about something that made her uncomfortable at a tech conference. As a result she has now been called a b_tch, c_nt, wh_re, n_gger, and an "affirmative action hire". People are saying things like "someone with her…

People on the Internet being offensive behind the mask of anonymity is not a new thing. Not saying it's a good thing, but when you decide to take your story on the web, you should expect criticism, and outright hate as well, especially on as sensitive a topic as this one is.

In other words, Welcome to the Internet.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#854

Post by Semaphor »

eridius wrote: post #750
fingerprinter wrote: post #627

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was going to let your comment slide until I saw your followup 'downvote' comment below. > The fact is, the way language is interpreted by the listener is far more important than how it was meant by the speaker. This is absurd to the point that I call Poe's Law. Nearly ALL language can be "offensive" in some way shape or form. Someone saying they are "offended" literally means nothing. Intent matters. A lot. Now, co…

Thank you for replying. As I said, I didn't want to take sides. My comment was purely addressing the idea that, because the speaker did not intend the comment to be sexual in nature, that means it was a "fabrication". I do agree with you that the appropriate course of action was to speak to the two men and ask them to cut out the comments. That said, I disagree with your absolutist position. Yes, anything you say cou…

> My comment was purely addressing the idea that, because the speaker did not intend the comment to be sexual in nature, that means it was a "fabrication".

If you understand something some way and can't be certain that what you understood is what was meant and go on to tell everyone what you understood instead of verbatim what was said, than yes, that is a fabrication in my book.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#856

Post by RutZap »

I think people should read Paul Graham's article one more time! http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html

I get a feeling some people are desperate for attention (otherwise I can't justify many of her blog posts).

Anyway, I think there's too much energy spent on stupid arguments like this one, and people should mind their own business and not interfere with other's lives.

As Paul Graham says, Argue with idiots and you become an idiot. So if the guys were being idiots with their lewd jokes, Adria became a bigger idiot for getting involved, and even more, getting that poor guy fired (a sanction would have sufficed).

Re: The PyCon Incident

#857

Post by jasonlotito »

moistgorilla wrote: post #440
jasonlotito wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, just to be clear, you are boycotting a company that employees someone who upholds the code of conduct agreed to by all attendees of pycon, but make no mention of the company that actually fired the guy. Gotcha.

It has nothing to do with the code of conduct considering that very code says that you are not supposed to take a picture of someone without their express permission.

https://us.pycon.org/2013/about/code-of-conduct/

Where does it say anything about someone's expressed permission? Doing a search on the page for several words did not bring up anything remotely close. Permission isn't even used.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#858

Post by jrs235 »

rdtsc wrote: post #529
georgeorwell wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is indecent is that Adria Richards completely invented the bit about forking being a sexual reference ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5398681 ), escalated her discomfort to the level of internet drama, got her employer SendGrid to support her, and didn't exactly go out of her way to petition PlayHaven to unfire one of the two guys involved. And she's now sticking to her guns even after profusive apologies…

The outcome I'd want to see is for both companies and Adria Richards to apologize. I would want him to be offered his job back (but I hope he gets better offers and I wouldn't be shocked if he hasn't already. I would certainly call him up for an interview). If public humiliation is the new modus operandi, then it seems it is a double edged sword. I think her reputation is forever tarnished. Maybe she had good intenti…

Agreed. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5414269

Re: The PyCon Incident

#860

Post by heili »

groby_b wrote: post #747
clubhi wrote: post #628

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't sound like much fun. I work with many women and men... We are all make horrible sex jokes throughout the day. Are you the guy sitting by yourself at lunch?

No, I happen to be the woman who actually enjoys hanging out with her current colleagues - who all strangely managed to grow up past puberty.

I would treat you professionally and avoid making any references to anything more controversial than toast in your presence.

But I also wouldn't invite you to any outside of work social activities either, because you sound like a buzzkill.

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