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If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

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Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#851

Post by lotsofpulp »

Aurornis wrote: post #627
randomNumber7 wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money should only have the purpose of realizing ones goals, it has no purpose in itself. The whole society has lost its goal when the only target is to maximize money.

When I do volunteer career mentoring for an early career group, money concerns are always a topic. It's really bad in tech right now because the college students have been reading Blind and levels.fyi for years and think that if they're not making $500K TC they're never going to afford a house. They hit a very harsh reality when they graduate and realize their degree from an average state school and job search in a c…

> You wouldn't believe how many young people I've talked to who have household incomes in the $200 to $300K range who tell me they'll never be able to afford a house or to have kids. When you're immersed in doomer headlines you can lose track of the reality that people are raising families on much less than that all around you.

They know that, they just don’t want their kids to go to school with the kids in the bottom 4 quintiles. Also, I probably would have foregone kids if it meant I was not going to be financially independent by age 50. Incomes are too volatile, and healthcare too expensive to be in that age 50 to age 65 period where a healthcare issue or loss of employment can derail you forever.

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#852

Post by reddozen »

Aurornis wrote: post #618
bontaq wrote: post #409

My mom said, "whatever we built isn't working anymore," and I think that captures most of the sentiment. It's also funny to see the "the economy is roaring!" "incomes are up!". Great, have they increased by as much as inflation? Can I afford a home? Work has if anything gotten worse in general. Remote's gone. Pay's less. ADHD maximum AI use required. Nobody can take a break. Pressure's on. 1.5 trillion more to the mi…

> It's also funny to see the "the economy is roaring!" "incomes are up!". Great, have they increased by as much as inflation? Can I afford a home? Gen Z home ownership is outpacing millenial home ownership at the same age. There's a lot of denial around this topic because everywhere you turn there's a Reddit post or news headline about how housing is impossible to afford. > Pay's less. Less than the narrow window of…

This reminds me that people only care about what you tell them to care about. Grocery store prices was the first thing out of any "undecided muh both sides" voters mouth in 2024.

But on Jan 20, 2025 it was magically fixed instantly despite grocery store prices increasing because voters decided to elect in blanket import taxes. No one cares about these issues. They just care about the aesthetic.

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#853

Post by hunterpayne »

MattRogish wrote: post #247

I find it interesting that all the trend lines start going negative around 2001. I wonder why that's not remarked upon? 9/11 itself was - obviously - epically terrible, but the impact of the event was recoverable. Our response to it (Iraq war, forever wars, etc.) combined with the realization that the USA are be "the baddies" and we've been lied to since forever, probably might have been the thing that set all the do…

Dear god, get offline for a while...

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#854

Post by Der_Einzige »

diogenescynic wrote: post #809
HDBaseT wrote: post #772

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 1999 Honda Civic or Toyota Corolla, assuming serviced regularly (and competently) could easily be on the road today. I genuinely do not believe a 2025 car will usable on the road in 2035 (a mere 9 years), yet known 15 or 20 years from now. They are all too hamstrung by technology and whilst some of the technology is an improvement, a vast majority if malicious.

The reason Toyota prices are still so high is because they're one of the only vehicles that are still so reliable (Mazda and Honda are actually great too). I think a 2025 Lexus GX 550 will almost certainly be on the road in 2035. Anything electric I am less certain of because they depreciate way faster and the build quality sucks.

The latest Lexus models including the one you cited are getting in huge trouble for quality problems right now. Anything without a 2JZ is suspect from Lexus right now.

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#855

Post by hunterpayne »

voxadam wrote: post #343
slackfan wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I realize that you're baiting, but it's just a google search away. We're at about 10%, vs some EU countries' 13-14%. Considering that - it's highly unlikely that anybody who needs access to SSRIs does not have it.

Forgive me, I wasn't baiting. I was just trying to elude to the fact that a substantial percentage of the American population can not afford to get a doctor to prescribe them medication and often can not afford to fill that prescription. The lack of insurance and prevalence of underinsurance in the US very likely an important aspect of what we're talking about.

That both isn't true and ignores how long it takes in Europe to get an appointment. The US healthcare system isn't bad, its expensive. Its expensive because regulations force it to be expensive, often for the best reasons (minimum standards of care). It isn't an accident that rich Europeans travel to the US for healthcare. You can probably see the problem with all of this. But who wants to be the politician that legalizes cheaper care for poor folks. Even though its good public policy, the other side will vilify them for it. Most public policy problems are caused by those with no knowledge of a topic getting involved (even if its just voting based upon that issue) in it.

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#856

Post by jrumbut »

smallmancontrov wrote: post #774
pjscott wrote: post #733

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't track cost of living? The way it's calculated is all about cost of living! In the US, the official inflation numbers are based on a "basket of goods" meant to be representative of a typical person's spending. Housing currently makes up about a third of the basket, while luxury items are a fairly small percentage. Here's a pretty well-written summary, albeit with numbers from 2022: https://www.pewresearch.o…

Nope. CPI is an excellent differential indicator -- "how much did a typical person's cost of living rise this year " -- but it's a terrible integral indicator if you compound it because it's blind to the difference between forced and voluntary substitution. If essentials inflate faster than wages, money_in=money_out drives a reduction in nonessentials -- forced substitution -- and the CPI basket adjustments launder t…

Yes, it also takes into account rising quality. For an example, in 2010 I rented a rat hole apartment for $x from a fisherman who had inherited the building. He never did maintenance (he was out to sea most of the year) and he never raised rent.

A large company bought the building after I moved out. Ten years later, the same apartment with a fresh coat of paint and new countertops was back on the market for a rent of about three times $x.

The CPI can say that apartment, since it was refurbished, increased in quality and so it wasn't really a price increase of the same good from $x to $3x. This offers a "degree of freedom" to adjust the CPI itself (since quality is inherently subjective), and may be a big part of why CPI does not reflect the lived experience.

I didn't care one bit about paint or countertops when I rented that apartment and I assume broke young adults today don't either. At the time I wanted the cheapest place to live in the area and this was it. It still is one of the cheapest places, but you need three times as much money to rent it.

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#857

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

pixl97 wrote: post #833
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Austin prices absolutely exploded from about 2010 to 2022. A huge part of that was housing, and then just before the pandemic Austin became sort of a weird "meme stock" ("Elon Musk is moving there!", "Joe Rogan is moving there") where its popular vision far outstripped its actual reality. I remember travelling around 2018 or so and telling people I was from Austin, and nearly every time I got a "Oh cool, I've heard t…

>so the reason basic sandwiches are so expensive there is that entry level pay is now about $25/hr. Commercial property and property tax rates are insane in Texas. It's not the pay, because in towns were pay is less prices aren't much lower.

Meh, property tax rates are so high in Texas because there is no state income tax. And I disagree that prices aren't much lower in other towns. Whenever I drive to Houston I always comment when I stop for food (which usually ends up being at some "fast casual" type place) that prices are much more reasonable than in Austin, like ~20-25% less.

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#858

Post by hunterpayne »

slibhb wrote: post #461

Regardless of exactly how it started, the constant negativity you see everywhere (including HN...) has become a self-perpetuating social contagion. Notice that it mainly affects the English-speaking world, which hints that it spreads and survives through language.

Its caused by active influence campaigns and institutional ideology. Its not native, it doesn't come from the population and it doesn't reflect society. That's why politicians who embrace it usually lose. Only the reactionaries (who go against it) do well in elections. Those "people" you see online pushing it, those are bots and they are rarely operated by Americans or even native English speakers.

PS A foreign example, the entire Scottish Independence movement online (post say 2020) was caused by foreign bot farm.

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#859

Post by Der_Einzige »

dlivingston wrote: post #843
globular-toast wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On top of that, AI is generally a demotivating entity to the majority of people. I agree. I think we should just stop.

The only way out is through. This transition sucks but (1) is necessary (and INEVITABLE) to become an advanced civilization, and (2) the cat is out of the bag, it is not going back in, and burying one's head in the sand is no solution at all.

The cat can be put back into the bag. Go see the plot for “the creator” or “dune” to see what doing that looks like.

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#860

Post by lotsofpulp »

hunterpayne wrote: post #846
odyssey7 wrote: post #699

All work and no play... gives you a birth rate crisis, apparently.

Its urbanization that causes that. COVID had nothing do with it.

It’s women’s rights that causes that. Turns out, making and raising a baby more than one or two times is not a preferred option. And zero is preferred a lot of times too.
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