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Tesla ending Models S and X production

cnbc.com

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Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#851

Post by gwbas1c »

smotched wrote: post #790
not_ai wrote: post #725

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not know this and explains why I see so many teslas with their blinkers on and not maneuvering despite having ample room and time. Ultimately this behavior makes them unsafe for their occupants as well as others around them. Cars only work because we can predict driver behavior, if they break that prediction that’s when bad things are likely to happen… Lately I’ve started to ignore Tesla blinker.

Autopilot doesnt turn on the turn signal or change lanes, what you are dealing with is humans.

Enchanced autopilot and self-driving do.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#852

Post by dpkirchner »

WarmWash wrote: post #751
jacquesm wrote: post #691

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla benefited from tax payer subsidies.

Trust me, I hate Tesla and Elon as much as the next naysayer But just to keep the story straight Tesla received ~$3 billion in subsidies. When Elon exercised his Tesla options in 2021, he paid $11 billion in taxes on it. By all accounts those subsidies were an incredibly good use of taxpayer money, and similar subsidies should keep being handed out, even if the byproduct is another big troll on twitter.

How should we calculate the enormous subsidy they received through high tariffs against their competitors?

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#853

Post by jasondigitized »

lnsru wrote: post #355
rswail wrote: post #334

So he milked Tesla for another $2B to subsidize xAI, has dropped the models to 2 (3 and Y), revenue is down, growth is negative, BYD is eating Tesla for lunch, followed by the other CN and KR vehicle companies. He doesn't have FSD, camera only navigation without sensor fusion with LIDAR will fail, the only thing keeping Tesla where it is is the bullshit dispersal field that surrounds Musk.

The gamble with Cybertruck failed. It’s common sense, that such a vehicle will fail. The successful cars are made for masses and not for niche buyers. Common sense product could be something smaller than Model 3 for Europe and this car would eat Chinese for lunch. Expensive experiment failed, it’s time for consequences. Does Tesla have resources for another car experiment? Will it stay a car company?.. Or it will be…

Eat BYD for lunch?

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#854

Post by WorldMaker »

NoPicklez wrote: post #102
tensor wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not surprised at the X, but the S has always been the flagship model with all the best features and the top performance. The 3 is a fine mid-sized car but it's very strange to get rid of your flagship model. Those always cater to a small audience anyways.

I guess from my perspective you can't buy the S or the X in Australia, all I see everywhere are the 3 and the Y. So for me its not flagship but I do know that the S was the original popular Tesla and has all of the bells and whistles.

The S was a true American "land yacht" in the classic style of an Oldsmobile. There's a lot of reasons for it to be seen as the US flagship model and for it to have done poorly in other markets or not even released to them.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#855

Post by hbarka »

groos wrote: post #844
hbarka wrote: post #812

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Model 3 has radar. It’s no longer functional and just a useless appendage. Until 2020-21 all Tesla had radar but Musk directed Tesla to disable the radar from the software stack, nerfing this hardware on tens of thousands of cars. Why? Because he staked on camera-only and to find out there’s still radar fusion would be against that. The real truth is probably they were derisking the part cost (during Covid) and th…

My 8 yo M3 has radar and it still is active since the yellow radar symbols light up when passing by obstacles. It's also used to figure out obstacles in the front and back and if disabled, the relatively poor cameras on my car would not be able to figure out the distance to the next car in the front.

That’s your ultrasonic sensors. The millimeter-wave-radar was front only and designed for far focusing out front.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#856

Post by enragedcacti »

gkfasdfasdf wrote: post #780
sgjohnson wrote: post #485

Tesla will become a case study on how to completely waste the first-mover advantage. For many people, the very term EV itself is still ubiquitous to Tesla. And somehow Tesla is still worth more than every other non-Chinese automaker combined. $1.5T. GM? $80B. Stellantis? $40B. Toyota? $280B. Mercedes-Benz? $60B. BMW? $55B. Volkswagen Group? Also $55B. I’m sure I’ve missed plenty of others, but I could miss some 18 $5…

> And to add insult to injury, even GM Super Cruise is widely renowned as better and safer than Tesla’s current “FSD”. Do you have any sources for that claim? I can attest that current iteration of FSD is very, very good, and very likely is a safer driver than I am. At least one major insurance company agrees [0]. I don't have any experience with Super Cruise though. [0] - https://www.lemonade.com/fsd

Lemonade doesn't support your claim that FSD is a safer driver than you are. It just says that, most charitably, they believe FSD and a human operator are safer than just a human operator (The co-founder said exactly this to Reuters [0]). Further, the program has only been around for a week and their marketing copy specifically cites "Tesla's data" as the source for the 50% reduction rather than any sort of independent analysis.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/lemona...

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#857

Post by jasondigitized »

ACCount37 wrote: post #587
rswail wrote: post #334

So he milked Tesla for another $2B to subsidize xAI, has dropped the models to 2 (3 and Y), revenue is down, growth is negative, BYD is eating Tesla for lunch, followed by the other CN and KR vehicle companies. He doesn't have FSD, camera only navigation without sensor fusion with LIDAR will fail, the only thing keeping Tesla where it is is the bullshit dispersal field that surrounds Musk.

This LIDAR wank annoys me. If you can train a policy that drives well on cameras, you can get self-driving. If you can't, you're fucked, and no amount of extra sensors will save you. Self-driving isn't a sensor problem. It always was, is, and always will be an AI problem. No amount of LIDAR engineering will ever get you a LIDAR that outputs ground truth steering commands. The best you'll ever get is noisy depth estim…

Just don't drive up north in the snow and your good.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#859

Post by edmundsauto »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #801
breve wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is making humanoid robots a moat? Other companies have been making robots for longer, humanoid and otherwise, and doing it better. Has Optimus signed up for any sports yet: https://edition.cnn.com/2026/01/02/china/china-humanoid-robo... Is Optimus close to what Boston Dynamics is doing with Atlas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIhzUnvi7Fw

> Why is making humanoid robots a moat? It really isn't. (1) Also, what's the first billion dollar market for humanoid robots? Industry? "lights-out manufacturing" exists already, and doesn't require humanoid robots. Hyundai and BYD (among others) say they're going to put humanoid robots in their factories (2). They won't be Tesla robots. Is this really such a huge use? 1) https://www.topgear.com/car-news/tech/here-a…

I want my laundry robot!

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#860

Post by root_axis »

IncreasePosts wrote: post #821
root_axis wrote: post #795

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you have any sources for that claim? I can attest that current iteration of FSD is very, very good, and very likely is a safer driver than I am. That's a damning statement about your driving skills, and probably not true or you'd have had your license revoked by now. I've had FSD for five years, and even today it regularly makes dangerous mistakes. For example, left turns and roundabouts are the equivalent of Ru…

If your Tesla is 5 years old aren't you getting a degraded FSD model due to weak hardware?

I took it in for a HW update in 2023. I do believe there is an even newer hardware stack since then, but as far as I'm aware the HW doesn't impact the supported capabilities.
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