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Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

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Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#851

Post by giancarlostoro »

kyralis wrote: post #470
scottyah wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And a lot of the best automotive+ engineers in the world.

That's a challenging claim to justify when their output is the Cybertruck. Honestly, none of Tesla's lineup is currently impressive - it's mostly gimmicky with less than stellar build quality. I strongly considered a Model S years ago when they first came out, but the price just didn't seem justifiable. Now? The world has moved on, and Tesla... hasn't.

Has the world moved on? While it may be anecdotal my area has only exploded with Teslas, I live in Florida for context. I see Cybertruks nearly everyday (some days I don't have to drive anywhere due to working remote). I always see a Tesla, heck, sometimes I see two or more of them at any given time, all over Central Florida I always see a Tesla somewhere, but in my area in particular it feels like "Tesla Country" at this point, and I don't see it dwindling, they just built another Tesla building near our Airport (MCO) too. Even see some bumper stickers on Teslas with "Elon" crossed out on them. Heck, my wife's own relatives have Teslas and they don't like Elon's politics, nor do they live in my area.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#852

Post by Workaccount2 »

BizarroLand wrote: post #583
cosmic_cheese wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the truth is very few truck owners are towing huge loads long distances. This pattern also applies more broadly. Most people don't actually need to drive 400 miles without stopping, don't actually need an SUV, and in some cases don't actually need a truck. For a huge swath of the population some variation on a hybrid/electric hatchback/wagon or minivan is actually the best match for their needs, but practicalit…

The reason I'm holding out for a 400 mile range vehicle is many fold. 1: Sometimes I actually do drive 400 miles in a single sitting, and I want to be able to keep doing that. 2: The last 10% of charge seems to take the longest. If I can safely fast charge in 20 minutes from 30 to 300 miles range, then I would have no range anxiety even when I'm on a long road trip. 3: I know the tech is coming, and I can wait until…

You could do 400 miles with a model 3 LR with one ~20 minute charge.

For 6 hours of straight driving, 20 minutes to stand and use the bathroom isn't too bad.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#853

Post by jlarocco »

iAMkenough wrote: post #214
jlarocco wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, both the Lightning and the Cybertruck are just bad trucks. Some review of the Lightning I read said it has less than a 100 mile range towing a full load. It's a fashion statement, not a work vehicle.

I counted 49 pickup trucks with empty beds in the parking garage downtown this morning.

But a lot of people buy trucks so they can tow and carry stuff when they need to, not because they're doing it all the time.

Downvote all you want, the sales numbers speak for themselves.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#854

Post by Aurornis »

Aunche wrote: post #755
Aurornis wrote: post #748

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The difference is that the Submariner can actually be used as a dive watch. Are you suggesting that modern trucks can’t be used as trucks?

I mean the Cybertruck, and EV trucks in general to a certain extent, are rather lousy trucks, so they aren't seen as aspirational the same way a normal F150 or Submariner are.

> and EV trucks in general to a certain extent,

There are some good EV trucks out there. The Cybertruck is kind of uniquely bad because they tried so hard to make it unique and funny looking.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#855

Post by Aurornis »

michaelt wrote: post #786
Aurornis wrote: post #702

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. The internet loves to bash truck owners as all being the same one guy who buys a truck to drive 1.3 miles to the office every day, but the audience of truck buyers is huge and diverse. Acting like nobody who buys a truck actually uses it or thinking that contractors couldn’t possibly appreciate (or deserve?) a nice interior for what is basically their mobile office is pretty out of touch.

> thinking that contractors couldn’t possibly appreciate (or deserve?) a nice interior for what is basically their mobile office is pretty out of touch I'm not familiar with the USA. What do contractors over there do in terms of clean/dirty clothes? Do they change into clean boots and trousers before getting into the truck? Or are they all in roles where they don't get their hands dirty? In my country, vehicles marke…

The trades are wide and varied. A lot of tradespeople will show up to the job in an old 250,000 mile Honda if they’re just doing dirty work and going home.

The farm and woodworking people I know have nicer trucks, but they’re not afraid to get them dirty. Put some rubber floor mats down and the floor is easy to clean. Leather seats are actually easier to clean than cloth seats. The steering wheel wipes clean.

Every square inch of my truck’s interior is covered in a layer of fine dust every time we go off roading because the windows have to be down. I can clean it all relatively quickly because everything is accessible and the interior is smaller and boxier than my car.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#856

Post by Workaccount2 »

ak217 wrote: post #716
Dibes wrote: post #657

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, for most people a standard wall outlet is plenty. The math works out that a simple 15/20 amp circuit can charge over 40 miles overnight, and the vast majority of people aren't driving more than that for their daily commute plus errands. Level 1 charging is genuinely sufficient most of the time. I was particularly swayed by the technology connections video on this topic I watched before buying my first E…

Sorry, I love Technology Connections as much as anyone, but that's a ridiculous argument. Even people who drive less than 40 miles a day will occasionally need to drive 100 miles a day for two days back to back. That's not even a long distance trip, it's just driving around. With level 1 charging they are stuck and frustrated. With level 2 they're fine. Not to mention the hassle and mental energy required to plug in…

You can use DC fast chargers to fill gaps as needed.

Also if you are always driving 40mi/day, you likely float with a battery percentage around 80%, leaving plenty of capacity for those consecutive 100 mile days with your standard overnight slow charge.

Again, this cannot be said enough, EVs are not gas vehicles, they do not refill like gas vehicles, if you apply gas vehicle logic to them, they look awful. But they are not gas vehicles, they don't follow the same logic and rules of gas vehicles. So you don't apply gas vehicle logic to them.

It's like handing chopsticks to an 18th century westerner, they'll stab their food with it and laugh about how stupid and useless they are. You need to learn and use chopsticks before criticizing chopsticks.

This whole thread (as always) is full of people stabbing their food with chopsticks.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#857

Post by phil21 »

potato3732842 wrote: post #818
phil21 wrote: post #773

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AWD is a luxury outside of the most extreme of extreme locations. I grew up in Minnesota driving rear wheel drive cars to start. They worked fine even in the olden days where plows would take a couple days to clear the country backroads and even rock salt was applied sparingly due to the expense. Not a single one of my vehicles had winter tires - all seasons were perfectly serviceable. You’d get stuck once in a great…

>AWD is a luxury outside of the most extreme of extreme locations. Only in the most strictly technical "I'm not touching you" sense. Either AWD/4wd is necessary-ish when you're going to other people's property because you can't guarantee any given property isn't an icy shithole and when you're a professional being paid by them to be there for a specific purpose the last thing you wanna do is slip out trying to do a 2…

There are exceptions, like to everything in life. They just aren't really that interesting to discuss when talking about trends and averages.

The average contractor servicing suburban and exurban properties in a work van is going to be able to trivially navigate 95% of all snowfalls with FWD with a modicum of winter driving skills. It's just not that hard, and very few places get the type of snow that requires a fully off road capable vehicle.

If I lived in the mountains of Colorado and servicing ranches or something of course I'd be buying for those conditions. But a standard city in the northern US or Canada? Meh. Total waste of money for a fleet vehicle. These sorts of locations are where something like 99% of all vehicle miles are put on.

For personal use now that I can afford it? AWD is on all my vehicles. It's a magical technology since it allows turning your brain off, and making some situations comically easy to navigate. But I'm not optimizing for cost efficiency or practicality there - I'm optimizing for luxury and convenience.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#858

Post by cameldrv »

queuebert wrote: post #489
cameldrv wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get this attitude. Everyone criticizes auto companies for not making a small truck anymore, and then Ford comes out with the Maverick and then you say it doesn't have enough towing capacity. It can tow 4000 lbs. That covers a whole lot of use cases. It also has a payload capacity of 1500 lbs which is quite respectable for a small truck. As for FWD vs. RWD, who cares? How does that affect your ability to move…

I get your point, but those tow numbers are notoriously optimistic. Most people I bet would not be comfortable towing 4000 lbs with a Maverick, and it would struggle on grades or in heat. You can even feel that kind of weight with a full-size truck. Above 5000 lbs in most places you need independent trailer brakes. The real issue that limits the Maverick for a wider audience is the rear is too small to comfortably fi…

Most people don't need to tow 4000 lbs period. If I had a Maverick and needed to tow 4000 lbs I would absolutely do it though. I've towed more than that in an older Tacoma that's not that different from the Maverick. Would I do it at 75mph? Probably not. Would I be towing 4000 lbs going 65 up an 8% grade in the heat at high altitude in Arizona? Again probably not, but the idea that a small truck needs to be able to do everything is just against the concept of a small truck. If you must have the ability to do that, get something bigger.

I agree that the Maverick's bed is small and the back seat is small. IMO they would have been better off making a regular cab or an "access cab" thing with two doors and fold-down seats, and used the extra length to add to the bed. Those are great if you're single or don't have kids, and you just need to carry passengers very occasionally. If you're regularly hauling kids around you definitely want the next step up. A lot of tradesmen essentially never even use the passenger seat though, and the back seat is just lost bed space unless you're using it for locked storage.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#859

Post by jmye »

potato3732842 wrote: post #813
theshrike79 wrote: post #769

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was an anecdote that went something like "a 4x4 will just get you stuck worse then a 2wd" =) And, like you said, people think that an AWD car will stop faster. No, it'll just start moving faster, more traction doesn't make the brakes better or the road any less slippery. I owned a single 4WD car and it was super fun in the winter, but... when it's icy, you're most likely moving faster than you would be with a 2…

>And, like you said, people think that an AWD car will stop faster. The only people I know who think this way are made up people who exist only in the minds of people seeking to validate a purchasing decision.

> who exist only in the minds of people seeking to validate a purchasing decision.

Don't forget the people who just want to sneer at other people in ill-considered condescension! Plenty of that from the "the world outside the Bay Area and NYC isn't real and none of those people exist" folks.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#860

Post by mlrtime »

potato3732842 wrote: post #822
mlrtime wrote: post #809

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol, these people do not care about sprinter vans. The online crowd has such a love for sprinter vans, I don't see anyone talking about them except a very small group. The people around me have F250s + a trailer twice the size of a small sprinter. They can work and have a small house behind them when needed.

The Euro vans (sprinter and transit) are very well suited to businesses who'll own new stuff, depreciate and trade in before it's out of warranty. There's a reason those things get exported to the low labor cost 3rd world from there rather than winding up on used car lots like domestic van based single rear wheel box trucks and utility body stuff.

Oh I know they are good and I see them almost daily on the road. But it is a completely different market.

Sprinter/Transit will NOT replace F250s.

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