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Charlie Kirk killed at event in Utah

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Re: Charlie Kirk killed at event in Utah

#851

pragmatically, you can't kill an idea with bullets. terrorism does one thing only: it triggers retaliation. nihilistic accelerationists who want a war can use terror to provoke one. some of Charlie Kirk's last words: > ATTENDEE: Do you know how many transgender Americans have been mass shooters over the last 10 years? > KIRK: Too many. [Applause] I don't think the shooter was trans. but I'm trans, and I don't see thi…

> but I'm trans, and I don't see this going well for me, or for my community

A crackdown on trans people would be disastrous for the Rust community.

Re: Charlie Kirk killed at event in Utah

#853
The american state was brought into existence and persists through unrelenting political violence - internal and external. The estimated 90% of Indigenous population that perished; persistent excess deqths of indigenous peoples https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC1698152/; persistent racialized violence perpetrated by the state on Black communities; the exploitation and arbitrary state violence upon documented and undocumented non-citizen workers (or those perceived to be non-citizens); the 5 million that have perished during GWOT; the 5 million or so excess USSR deaths from US policies during the early 1990s; the violence of carceral warfare (the so-called “mass incarceration”) against racialized populations.

Aime Cesaire called it “imperial boomerang”; Malcolm X said “chickens coming home to roost”.

Yet the only form of violence that legible to the bourgeoisie is even the prospect of resistance & counterviolence - most of the recent attacks upon capitalists & those labeled as “right wing” seem to have not come from “the left”.

Re: Charlie Kirk killed at event in Utah

#854
post #720

I posted this article about political violence from Politico 3 months ago. It got 3 votes and sank. But it resurfaced on their website today because of this event (they revised the title of the front page link to make the subject more clear) so I'll bring it up again: How Does the Cycle of Political Violence End? Here's What an Expert Says. (Was: The Kindling Is a Lot Drier Than It Used to Be) https://www.politico.co…

This feels like it's not accounting at all for changes in enforcement.

Re: Charlie Kirk killed at event in Utah

#855

I'm mildly curious what the reaction to this will be compared to the reaction to other recent political murders, like the Hortmans, or of Thompson. That said, I think people need to recognize that in many aspects what's happening is connected to societal issues that gun control and gun regulations will have very little impact on - remember, even in Japan somebody could make some kind of battery ignited home-made shot…

> I'm mildly curious what the reaction to this will be compared to the reaction to other recent political murders, like the Hortmans, or of Thompson.

Trump has already issued a statement blaming his political opponents for the death before the perpetrator has even been identified.

"It's long past time for all Americans and the media to confront the fact that violence and murder are the tragic consequence of demonizing those with whom you disagree day after day, year after year, in the most hateful and despicable way possible. For years, those on the radical left have compared wonderful Americans like Charlie to Nazis and the world's worst mass murderers and criminals. This kind of rhetoric is directly responsible for the terrorism that we're seeing in our country today, and it must stop right now. My administration will find each and every one of those who contributed to this atrocity and to other political violence, including the organizations that funded and support it, as well as those who go after our judges, law enforcement officials, and everyone else who brings order to our country."

> That said, I think people need to recognize that in many aspects what's happening is connected to societal issues that gun control and gun regulations will have very little impact on - remember, even in Japan somebody could make some kind of battery ignited home-made shotgun and kill Shinzo Abe.

The event was set up so nobody could have direct access to Kirk, which would have been required for the "home-made shotgun" approach. There were barricades and bodyguards in front of him, and a waiting car in case he had to be whisked away. Shooting someone from 200+ yards requires more precise weapons than someone can make themselves. I think it's also important to note that Utah literally started allowing open carry on college campuses a few weeks ago. Not only did all those "good guys with guns" not prevent the assassination, having a large number of armed people in a crowd makes finding the shooter more difficult, as we've seen from police arresting the wrong suspect multiple times.

Re: Charlie Kirk killed at event in Utah

#856

The sad irony is that he's at a college campus debating/arguing with people. At their best that's what college campuses are for. I know they haven't been living up to it lately but seeing him gunned down feels like a metaphor. I know he liked to publicize the exchanges where he got the best of someone, and bury the others, and that he was a far, far cry from a public intellectual. Still, he talked to folks about idea…

It is a performance that appears as a debate.

Sure. Our own mainstream media is very guilty of doing the same things with regard to editing down reality for the sakes of entertainment or pushing an agenda. I guess one admirable difference, to offer him some defence, is he is an appproachable guy. Literally. If you so disired you could go and view his debates or even debate him yourself. He has the right to make himself look good on his own channel.

Re: Charlie Kirk killed at event in Utah

#857

pragmatically, you can't kill an idea with bullets. terrorism does one thing only: it triggers retaliation. nihilistic accelerationists who want a war can use terror to provoke one. some of Charlie Kirk's last words: > ATTENDEE: Do you know how many transgender Americans have been mass shooters over the last 10 years? > KIRK: Too many. [Applause] I don't think the shooter was trans. but I'm trans, and I don't see thi…

As an outsider, how did trans people get dragged into the gun debate?! Did I miss a major mass shooting by a trans person? Was their gender relevant to the shooting?

Re: Charlie Kirk killed at event in Utah

#858
post #137

History books can tell you facts that happened, but they can never truly tell you how it feels. I feel we're riding a knife's edge and there's a hurricane brewing in the gulf of absurdity. ==== Incidentally, I feel like this is why it is so hard to actually learn from history. You can read about the 1918 'Spanish' Flu, but you think "we're smarter now". etc.

One thing that history shows again and again is people being killed for their beliefs. Charlie always spoke from his heart, from his deeply held intellectual and spiritual beliefs. He died, literally on a stage defending those beliefs.

[flagged]

Re: Charlie Kirk killed at event in Utah

#859
I completely disagree with Charlie Kirk's rather unsympathetic preachings on many topics. But this act - it gives me a very sinking feeling. What worries me more than the yet undetermined identity of the killer is how a lot of people are responding to the news.

Why do some people celebrate his death? This was not a person who was declared as an enemy of the state. He was someone holding a public political debate. Can't they see that this incident is going to have extreme repercussions on their own welfare and the values they stand for? Can't they see the fear, pain and tears on the other side, that's gradually getting replaced by outrage and resentment? How do politics make people so blind to the suffering of the others? Doesn't the nation exist to support opposing ideas without such carnage? I know that Kirk has expressed opinion that downplayed the value of human life (like in case of gun rights). But how does that make the side that advocated for dignity, equality and empathy just suspend those values in his case?

You can't seriously convince any opponent with violence or hatred. And guns aren't the best tools for genuine persuasion. The mockery of their pain will only lead to their conviction and resolve. And at some point, it will become irreversible. Please don't let politics and bias cloud your judgment. This isn't a victory for your cause.

And no matter what sort of a person Kirk was, his role in this world is over rather abruptly. His grizzly demise displayed around the world leaves terrible wounds in the psyche of his family, friends, followers and numerous others. I hope that their pain doesn't mutate into destructive energy. I hope that they find the strength to overcome it and find peace.

Re: Charlie Kirk killed at event in Utah

#860
Do leftists, especially the ones one reddit, not realize that to a normal person, Kirk wasn't George Lincoln Rockwell, but just some boring, establishment Christian, conservative dweeb doing the well-worn campus "debate me bro" shtick of Shapiro and Crowder before him, and that the optics of them celebrating his death are really, really bad?
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