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Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

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Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#851

Post by pezezin »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #688
powvans wrote: post #10

This is really amazing to see trending on HN. I spent a couple days in Pontevedra this summer while walking the Camino de Santiago. It was absolutely delightful and what I experienced aligns with the article. The old town was filled with wide streets almost exclusively for walking, cafes and restaurants that sprawled into plazas, and people young and old enjoying the car free public space. It was one of the first sto…

There is another practical reality that separates the US from Europe specifically with respect to walkability. The US has much more extreme weather in many places. What would be called severe heat or cold in much of Europe, which I've suffered through for the week if need be, is normal weather in many parts of the US for several months on end. You need alternative transportation for those extended periods. Few people…

Europe also spans some extreme weather, from the frozen North to the scorching hot Meditarranean.

I am from Spain, where 40ºC in summer is normal but winters are mild. I have friends and colleagues from Finland and Latvia, which are pretty much the opposite. And yet all our countries are walkable.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#852

Post by kortilla »

abdullahkhalids wrote: post #814
potac wrote: post #798

I'm from Pontevedra. It has been the major's long-term project (~ 20 years) to make the city for the pedestrians: and he's done it. This works mainly because of two things: 1) the city is small and it takes aprox 30 min to walk it entirely from end to end, and 2) it is mostly flat. Only a smooth hill from "orillamar" to "alameda/peregrina". Unfortunately, the major obsessed with getting rid of cars (which I am highly…

Thanks for the perspective. I think it's difficult for small cities like Pontevedra to create high quality jobs. There are not enough people to support rich doctors, lawyers, accountants and such. Factories can be established, but most people employed in a factory won't have a "high-quality" job. What other type of high-quality job could the city create? [1] population ~ 80k, but working population ~ 50k.

Your perspective is really skewed here. 80k is easily enough to support multiple hospitals, specialist doctors, many dentists, and several multi hundred employee specialized companies.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#853

Post by bloomca »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #77
abraxas wrote: post #49

North Americans visiting Europe often grapple with why they enjoy European cities more than North American ones. It's often perceived as an architecture issue ("Europe has historical buildings that we don't have") but very few notice that the main difference is the urban scale and the resulting walkability. The Netherlands has plenty of modernist and even brutalist architecture yet every city there is a pretty nice p…

Important to note is how most cities have two (or more) zones; the old inner city for leisure, tourism, shopping and going out, the suburban areas around it where most people live, and industrial / office building estates where most people work. Amsterdam is a great example [0] and well-known for a lot of tourists, with the city center being the tourism hub, the zones around it for living, west/northwest for industry…

Most cities in Europe absolutely do not have suburban zones where most people live. Non-center areas also have their own leisure, going out, shopping places (usually mixed with the residential areas).

The suburbs purely for residential space where you have to go somewhere else for activities do exist, but usually over time they grow their own infrastructure for shopping and hanging out without needing to go far.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#854

Post by aziaziazi »

kortilla wrote: post #852
abdullahkhalids wrote: post #814

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the perspective. I think it's difficult for small cities like Pontevedra to create high quality jobs. There are not enough people to support rich doctors, lawyers, accountants and such. Factories can be established, but most people employed in a factory won't have a "high-quality" job. What other type of high-quality job could the city create? [1] population ~ 80k, but working population ~ 50k.

Your perspective is really skewed here. 80k is easily enough to support multiple hospitals, specialist doctors, many dentists, and several multi hundred employee specialized companies.

Side note: an hospital in Spain can be a relatively building with a few specialists, perhaps 20 people working here counting the staff. On many other countries an hospital is a huge building with dozens of specialists. The small places are "medical/care center". For sure there’s specialized jobs here too.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#855

Post by Saline9515 »

ses1984 wrote: post #740
Saline9515 wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My message starts with "it's a reason among others". And bike-centric policies have led the city to invest in bike lanes, rather than in the aging public transport and to remove surface parking, making it almost impossible to own a car if you have a family. All of this is in the article that I linked. An unexpected casualty of this is that it's now complex to get trade workers to come to Paris for construction jobs,…

If you had a source for those claims, it might be interesting.

https://cdn.paris.fr/paris/2024/07/12/paris_ra2023-circulati...

First chart shows that average speed for cars have decreased steadily. For surface parking a simple google search will help you find it.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#856

Post by prmoustache »

thekyle wrote: post #685
MisterTea wrote: post #635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was in Spain last month and what stood out is that walkability requires mom and pop stores as well as more integrated neighborhoods with small commercial shops mixed into residential. Small shops seemed to be the majority in the city centers. The only large store I saw was a Lidl. They have largeish indoor markets that are more like a mini mall of individual shops like a butcher, produce, baker, cheese, even restau…

I think big box stores are popular largely because it would be inconvenient to drive between many smaller shops just to find the same variety of goods. It’s the same dynamic we see with car-dependent shopping malls, where the main advantage is being able to park once and visit multiple stores. If instead you had to re-park at each individual store, the experience would be far less convenient. But if a town is designe…

"so that people can easily walk from store to store (similar to the experience of shopping inside a indoor mall), "

That is funny to read that, because indoor malls were meant to replicate the experience of shopping in a commercial area in a city, not the opposite.

It actually failed though. I feel terrible, sleepy and only want to get out after more than half an hour in these indoor malls. Probably something that has to do with artificial light and aircons.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#857

Post by pjmlp »

randunel wrote: post #775
pjmlp wrote: post #679

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pity that such miracle cities don't exist for people living in the suburbs, with their 4x connections on average, from door to door.

Indeed, such a city would prove you lot wrong.

Glad to be proven wrong for the lucky folks living in the suburbs of such marvellous city without being second class citizens, pity that you didn't provide such example, while being so eager to talk others down.

Maybe because there isn't such El Dorado.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#858

Post by pjmlp »

potac wrote: post #798

I'm from Pontevedra. It has been the major's long-term project (~ 20 years) to make the city for the pedestrians: and he's done it. This works mainly because of two things: 1) the city is small and it takes aprox 30 min to walk it entirely from end to end, and 2) it is mostly flat. Only a smooth hill from "orillamar" to "alameda/peregrina". Unfortunately, the major obsessed with getting rid of cars (which I am highly…

Exactly the point, those that celebrate these victories from the outside, completely lack the perspective what it means for the people on the suburbs, let alone everyone else not fortunate to afford housing in the city center.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#859

Post by reillyse »

potac wrote: post #798

I'm from Pontevedra. It has been the major's long-term project (~ 20 years) to make the city for the pedestrians: and he's done it. This works mainly because of two things: 1) the city is small and it takes aprox 30 min to walk it entirely from end to end, and 2) it is mostly flat. Only a smooth hill from "orillamar" to "alameda/peregrina". Unfortunately, the major obsessed with getting rid of cars (which I am highly…

How do the employment prospects compare to other Spanish cities? It's one thing to say prioritise quality jobs but it seems breaking the mold in one dimension is hard enough, but to do it for 2 dimensions at the same time is pretty tough.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#860

Post by Sharlin »

fransje26 wrote: post #739
Sharlin wrote: post #210

In my city (Tampere, Finland, pop. ~260,000) the annual number of traffic accidents leading to injury has halved since 2010. A big driver has been the decision in 2015 to lower the speed limits on all local streets from 40km/h (25 mi/h) to 30 km/h (~20 mi/h), with appropriate traffic calming measures implemented where necessary. (Industrial zones are exempt.) A map link showing the current state: https://kartat.tampe…

That's an area surrounded by a lot of water! TIL that Nokia originated in Tampere. Thank you for the information sharing!

A lot of water indeed, and it’s not even considered a part of what’s called the Finnish Lakeland proper! [1]

And yep, Nokia is literally the name of the town it originates from.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_Lakeland

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