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Mark Zuckerberg freezes AI hiring amid bubble fears

telegraph.co.uk

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Re: Mark Zuckerberg freezes AI hiring amid bubble fears

#851
post #766
post #593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They “deploy” much more than what they generate. Their cash position has gone from $44bn to $12bn in the first six months of the year and are now getting other people to pay for datacenters https://www.reuters.com/business/meta-taps-pimco-blue-owl-29...

I take offense to your implication this is an incorrect usage of the word deploy.

As opposed to employ? :p

Re: Mark Zuckerberg freezes AI hiring amid bubble fears

#852

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, for big valley tech companies it's crucial to have a new business developing in the wings which has plausible potential to be the "next big thing." They're desperate to keep their stock price from being evaluated solely on trailing twelve month revenue, so having a shiny, ephemeral hype-magnet to attract inflated growth expectations is essential. So far, it appears the psychology of investors allows the new t…

> as long as there's a new new thing to replace it as the aspirational vehicle. Like any good mark in a con game, tech investors want to believe. Yea, but it seems like the new new thing needs to get progressively bigger with each cycle, which is why I think the shell game is almost over. They really can't overpromise much more than they did with the AI hype-cycle. It feels like a startup valuation in that having a d…

> They really can't overpromise much more than they did with the AI hype-cycle.

While I agree that "replace all human labor" is already pretty high up there on the overreaching u/dis-topian promise list, there are still a few things left.

Perhaps the next dream to sell will be digitizing the minds of Valued Shareholders so that they can grasp immortality inside the computer.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg freezes AI hiring amid bubble fears

#853

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you explain your claim that ANNs are nothing like real neural networks beyond their initial inspiration (if you'll accept my paraphrasing). I've seen it a few times on HN, and I'm not sure what people mean by it. By my very limited understanding of neural biology, neurons activate according to inputs that are mostly activations of other neurons. A dot product of weights and inputs (i.e. one part of matrix multi…

Neurons don't just work on electrical potentials, they also have a multiple whole systems of neurotransmitters that affect their operation. So I don't think their activation is a continuous function. Although I suppose we could use non-continuous functions for activations in a NN, I don't think there's an easy way to train a NN that does that.

Sure, a real neuron activates by outputting a train of spikes after some input threshold has been crossed (a complex matter of synapse operation - not just a summation of inputs), while in ANNs we use "continuous" activation functions like ReLU... But note that the output of a ReLu, while continuous, is basically on or off, equivalent to a real neuron having crossed it's activation threshold or not.

If you really wanted to train artificial spiking neural networks in biologically plausible fashion then you'd first need to discover/guess what that learning algorithm is, which is something that has escaped us so far. Hebbian "fire together, wire together" may be part of it, but we certainly don't have the full picture.

OTOH, it's not yet apparent whether an ANN design that more closely follows real neurons has any benefit in terms of overall function, although an async dataflow design would be a lot more efficient in terms of power usage.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg freezes AI hiring amid bubble fears

#854
post #825

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I ignore anything that CEOs say about AI in the news. Examples, AGI in a few years, most jobs will be obsolete, etc.

CEO's were never credible to begin with, but what about Nobel laureate in Physics, Geoffrey Hinton, telling us to stop training radiologists? Nothing makes sense anymore.

Geoffrey Hinton believes a little too much in his baby.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg freezes AI hiring amid bubble fears

#855

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Between “presumes a solid grasp of which things out there are not fraud besides those which are coercion, but that's not a subject I'm interested in having an opinion about,” before going on and sharing an opinion on that subject, and “even the Invisible Hand of the market is hand-shaped,” I think it may just be AI slop.

Literacy barrier. One of the reason the invisible foot of the market decided to walk in the direction of language machines is to discourage people from playing with language, because that's doodoo.

> Literacy barrier.

> One of the reason

I could see that, thanks for explaining why you do this.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg freezes AI hiring amid bubble fears

#856
post #825

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CEO's were never credible to begin with, but what about Nobel laureate in Physics, Geoffrey Hinton, telling us to stop training radiologists? Nothing makes sense anymore.

Well, clearly he should stick to physics. Even if it's likely that AI would replace them soon, a lot of people would likely die unnecessarily if we ran overly low on radiologists by ending the pipeline too soon. They're already overworked and that can only go so far. It's not a bet we should make.

> Well, clearly he should stick to physics.

While his Nobel prize was for "physics", his domain is AI.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg freezes AI hiring amid bubble fears

#857

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scaling AI will require an exponential increase in compute and processing power, A small quibble... I'd say that's true only if you accept as an axiom that current approaches to AI are "the" approach and reject the possibility of radical algorithmic advances that completely change the game. For my part, I have a strongly held belief that there is such an algorithmic advancement "out there" waiting to be discovered, t…

If we suppose that ANNs are more or less accurate models of real neural networks, the reason why they're so inefficient is not algorithmic, but purely architectural. They're just software. We have these huge tables of numbers and we're trying to squeeze them as hard as possible through a relatively small number of multipliers and adders. Meanwhile, a brain can perform a trillion fundamental simultaneously because eve…

The energy inefficiency of ANNs vs our brain is mostly because our brain operates in async dataflow mode with each neuron mostly consuming energy only when it fires. If a neuron's inputs haven't changed then it doesn't redundantly "recalculate it's output" like an ANN - it just does nothing.

You could certainly implement an async dataflow type design in software, although maybe not as power efficiently as with custom silicon, but individual ANN node throughput performance would suffer given the need to aggregate neurons needing updates into a group to be fed into one the large matrix multiplies that today's hardware is optimized for, although sparse operations are also a possibility. OTOH conceivably one could save enough FLOPs that it'd still be a win in terms of how fast an input could be processed through an entire neural net.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg freezes AI hiring amid bubble fears

#858

Nothing would give me a nicer feeling of schadenfreude than to see Meta, Google, and these other frothing-at-the-mouth AI hucksters take a bath on their bets.

Why would that give you a nice feeling?

Because companies like Google and Meta, which are responsible for so much social damage, deserve a little comeuppance every once in a while.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg freezes AI hiring amid bubble fears

#859
post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ability vastly increases your luck surface area. A single poker hand has a lot of luck, and even a game, but over long periods, ability starts to strongly differentiate peoples' results.

Except you can play hundreds of thousands of poker hands in your lifetime, but only have time/energy/money to start a handful of businesses.

Sure, but within running a single business, there are a huge number of individual events. Those are the hands.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg freezes AI hiring amid bubble fears

#860
post #859

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except you can play hundreds of thousands of poker hands in your lifetime, but only have time/energy/money to start a handful of businesses.

Sure, but within running a single business, there are a huge number of individual events. Those are the hands.

That's where the analogy starts to fall apart then. Because the variance in those decisions is not very similar, since you're sampling very different underlying distributions. And estimating the priors for a problem like "what is the optimal arrangement of tables to maximize throughput in a cafe" is very different from a problem like "what is the current untapped/potential demand for a boardgaming cafe in this city, and how profitable would that business be".

The main reason why professional poker players are playing the long-game, is because they're consistently playing the same game. Over and over.

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