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America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

molsonhart.com

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Re: America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

#851

Post by anon6362 »

runako wrote: post #660
almosthere wrote: post #632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cost of labor is the issue: china is enslaving people to work.

The US specifically outlawed slavery except among prisoners. The US also operates prison labor at very low rates. I'm not sure this is a meaningful point of differentiation.

US corporations benefit today from slave labor by people housed in for-profit prisons where there are incentives to over-prosecute brown and poor people. These include, but aren't limited to:

- Aramark

- Avis

- IBM

- JCPenney

- Kmart

- McDonald's

- Nintendo

- Sprint

- Starbucks

- Verizon

- Walmart

- Wendy's

- Whole Foods/Amazon

Re: America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

#852

Post by anon6362 »

To build assembly lines, one has to first make custom tools, jigs, and parts and apply processes to them that cannot just be 3D printed in plastic or metal or FDM'ed.

The main show-stopper to them is the lack of working knowledge about precision tooling manufacturing.

For example, some of the best power machine tools in the world came from Germany and from Bridgeport, CT between 1910 and 1965. There are/were moderately large, 1 micron runout milling machines such as Moore No. 2 and No. 3. These things generally aren't made anymore and not many people know the tricks and processes to make similar or equivalent machines that make other tools and machines. Like that the unshielded body heat of an operator can swing the runout of a precision machine in an otherwise climate-controlled environment.

Re: America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

#853

Post by Herring »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #504
wormlord wrote: post #150

I think the collapse of the American Empire is no more preventible than the collapse of the British, Spanish, or Roman empires. The issues with the US being the reserve currency has been known for a while now (and was even predicted by Keynes before the Bretton-Woods summit): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triffin_dilemma Any discussion of "bringing back manufacturing" that doesn't mention government spending or socia…

> the collapse of the American Empire is no more preventible than the collapse of the British, Spanish, or Roman empires They each had longer runs than we’ve had. My pet theory is lead. From 1950 to 1980 we birthed a leaded generation [1]. Today, up to 60% of American voters were born before 1975 [2]. (Voters born between 1950 and 1980 came into the majority in the 1990s and should fall into the minority by 2028, but…

Idk about the lead idea. There was a lot of BS going on in the world before it showed up.

Re: America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

#854

Post by otterley »

themaninthedark wrote: post #738
quickthrowman wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem and its underlying factors are so obvious to me that I'm constantly amazed to see well-informed, intelligent people who don't seem to understand it. Do you understand that labor is priced into the cost of the product? Who is going to buy all of these American products made by highly paid unionized workers? I understand the Rust Belt situation sucks, but people can’t afford to buy everyday consumer goods…

Hey, guess what would help the average American with being able to afford something that is expensive? A job that pays a living wage! I am reminded of when the great offshoring started and everyone was looking down on poorer folks for shopping at Walmart because it was filled with cheap junk and they should know better than to buy that stuff(when in reality it's all they could afford since their good job was gone...)…

It's all relative, though. If those same things were inexpensive, one could earn a lower wage and still afford them.

Re: America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

#855

Post by recoup-papyrus »

like_any_other wrote: post #163
pjc50 wrote: post #35

> China generates over twice as much electricity per person today as the United States. Why? This appears to be completely wrong? All the stats I can find say that the US has about 4x the per capita electricity generation of China. Other than that it seems to be mostly good points, especially the overall one: you cannot do this overnight. > If you’re building a new factory in the United States, your investment will a…

> Other than that it seems to be mostly good points, especially the overall one: you cannot do this overnight. It's annoying Americans were given only two choices - offshoring is great and let's keep doing it, and, as you say, the opposite, meth-fueled let's bring back manufacturing overnight. The kind of slow and steady protection and promotion of home-grown industry that China and most of Asia so successfully used…

[dead]

Re: America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

#856

Post by pellucide »

Ostrogoth wrote: post #844
hilux wrote: post #839

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The US has focussed on high-value verticals like aerospace Which is about to take a huge nosedive, as both Europe and China pull back on buying critical systems from the US. And can you blame them? There's an excellent youtube series (by a Finnish ex-military officer) on the likely impact of recent events on US arms sales to Europe. They do have choices! Trump and Musk's threats to invade and blackmail (e.g. by cut…

Can you share the link? I’d like to watch that.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iAOtMaXVVjA

Re: America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

#857

Post by JoelJacobson »

Could anyone clarify what the author means regarding duty drawback? He writes:

"There is no duty drawback for exporting. In the past, even in the United States, if you imported something and then exported it, the tariff you paid on the import would be refunded to you. They got rid of that..."

My understanding was that duty drawback—where import duties are refunded if the imported items or their components are later exported—is still broadly available in the U.S., though with certain exceptions (like steel/aluminum tariffs under Section 232 or trade within USMCA countries).

Is he referring specifically to recent tariff changes or targeted exceptions rather than a general elimination? Or has there been a broader policy shift I'm missing?

Re: America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

#858

Post by recoup-papyrus »

rickdeckard wrote: post #252
like_any_other wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Other than that it seems to be mostly good points, especially the overall one: you cannot do this overnight. It's annoying Americans were given only two choices - offshoring is great and let's keep doing it, and, as you say, the opposite, meth-fueled let's bring back manufacturing overnight. The kind of slow and steady protection and promotion of home-grown industry that China and most of Asia so successfully used…

The weird part for me is this: While the economy was evolving, Production was offshored from US for cost-reasons, but also in part to focus on higher-skill labor in US, delegating the low-skill mass-production to China. Over time, China also developed mid/high level skills, complemented their low-skill production offering with it and now competes in new industries, new tech, etc. So...to compete with China, the count…

[dead]

Re: America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

#859

Post by aredox »

Yeul wrote: post #785
aredox wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's annoying Americans were given only two choices - offshoring is great and let's keep doing it, and, as you say, the opposite, meth-fueled let's bring back manufacturing overnight. Excuse me, but I am old enough to remember Biden's program such as CHIPS, a slow and steady protection and promotion of home-grown industry. America had the choice. It chose wrong. Are Americans going to assume the consequences of thei…

I don't think the Rust belt really gives a shit about high tech industry making chips. I have seen this in my own country when mega corps build highly automated data centres that only employ a few local cleaners and security guards.

Chip making is manufacturing and requires far more engineers, technicians and a wide network of suppliers than data centers or Amazon warehouses.

Re: America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

#860

Post by mocules »

There's an argument that America is fundamentally broken at this point. By fundamentally, I mean value wise the country is splitting apart. Trump is the saviour for half the country and the devil for the other half. It's basically taken less than a hundred years, even after riding on the back of world war 2 and hegemony, to bring the country back to the great depression. The trade wars for me are just another desperate attempt by the country to point blame elsewhere.

House prices are at an all time high. Cost of living is becoming unbearable. So, $25 dollar menial jobs are scoffed at, because of inflation. Inflation is due to out of control printing/spending and government debt. Debt is due to big government, capitalist greed and oligarchy. Capitalist greed is due to economies of scale when offshoring. Oligarchy and big government is due to an entrenched lobby system. Lobby system is due to the cost of electioneering and bad decisions by successive governments.

It goes on and on.

Root cause: Systemic rot. Diagnosis: Failing empire Prognosis: UK (if the fall is managed)

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