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Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

bbc.com

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Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#851

Post by jacobgkau »

fatbird wrote: post #19
logicchains wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Your whole comment frames MAID as something the gov't does to patients, not something patients choose as a better option than spending 6-12 months in agony with only one possible outcome. It is something the government (or people working for it) have tried to push onto patients: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/veterans-maid-rcmp-investig... .

"a now-suspended Veterans Affairs Canada caseworker.... which has now uncovered a total of four cases where veterans were allegedly offered MAID — all apparently by the same caseworker". One person. Not the gov't, not many gov't employees. One person who presented the option overzealously or inappropriately, leading to four people feeling pressured, out of, IIRC, 45,000 people annually choosing MAID.

> One person. Not the gov't, not many gov't employees.

Yes, a gov't employee working for the gov't. A.k.a. the gov't.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#852

Post by jacobgkau »

squigz wrote: post #725
refurb wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One person...that we know of. The fact this one person did this, contradicts your earlier statement of "But we've found zero evidence since its introduction of its abuse, of its application as a cost-cutting measure, of it being forced on people."

A more generous reading of the comment might have read it as "widespread abuse"

They should have included the "widespread" disclaimer rather than making an absolute statement if they wanted that generous reading.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#853

Post by jacobgkau »

snakeyjake wrote: post #208
imtringued wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I suppose the only accident, homicide, and disease that cannot be defeated given enough luck, research, and effort is the eventual tiring, erosion, and destruction of one's mind I don't really see how you arrive at this. If someone has a disease that erodes their mind, they didn't die voluntarily, even if they choose euthanasia. In fact, you could say this about all euthanasia. Why choose to die? The HN answer is "b…

>Notice something? That's a can of worms that society is not ready for yet. That's what people who think that others are too stupid to determine the course of their own lives think. Anyone and everyone who thinks that I am not ready or able to determine the duration of my life can go fuck themselves.

If you're that ready to "determine the duration of your life," then you can do it yourself, without a publicly funded and legally authorized program to help you. Require anything more than you and your own devices, and you're not really as individualistic as you think you are.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#854

Post by squigz »

jacobgkau wrote: post #852
squigz wrote: post #725

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A more generous reading of the comment might have read it as "widespread abuse"

They should have included the "widespread" disclaimer rather than making an absolute statement if they wanted that generous reading.

Well I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that people will understand that any system will be prone to abuse - what's more important is how much it realistically enables, and how it responds to that abuse

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#855

Post by mattmaroon »

karencarits wrote: post #845
mattmaroon wrote: post #768

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone use religious arguments on here and I’ve been here since the beginning. Most of those arguments are religious. I do not consider “Euthanasia is against the word and will of God” a sensible argument, though I realize, of course, that like half of humanity would disagree with me. But nobody who has any formal training and philosophy or debate would. If the opposite of a statement is…

While it's true that the first section in the arguments against euthanasia is "Against the will of God", the others aren't. Arguments such as * There's no way of properly regulating euthanasia * Euthanasia exposes vulnerable people to pressure to end their lives * Voluntary euthanasia is the start of a slippery slope that leads to involuntary euthanasia and the killing of people who are thought undesirable * Proper p…

Those arguments aren’t all religious but they are mostly very weak. It is properly regulated in places. Nobody is pressured into it. There’s no evidence or logic to support the idea that euthanasia is some slippery slope to concentration camps, in fact it’s been legal in places for a time and nothing of the sort has happened.

If I said “euthanasia leads to long lines at the grocery store“ it would be a no weaker of an argument than most of those.

Arguments like these may not all be directly religious, but they come from the same place.

I realize it’s just my opinion, but I’ve still never heard one intelligent argument against it.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#856

Post by Tiktaalik »

michael1999 wrote: post #846
Tiktaalik wrote: post #843

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I said, > Like yes it has technically happened before So the reason it's important underline the "urban myth" status here is that while you've correctly pointed to the few concrete examples where this has occurred, in general many people casually, incorrectly throw these statements around as if this is frequent and constantly happening and this is a really toxic and bad habit that our society has. At best it's laz…

I don't quite understand your point. I contradicted you because I'm old, and I'm getting tired of people calling things that I vividly remember "urban legends". Lizard people in the sewers is an urban legend. That mean old drunk giving one-way tickets to Vancouver is history.

The point is that there's a difference between "this is a thing that has happened" and "this is a thing that happens". The latter thing is the toxic exaggeration of the truth IMO.

Like you're absolutely right that this particular rare event has happened before and I'm not discounting that, but the phrasing of the OPs story more suggests at the form of this story that is the myth that this is a trend and frequent occurrence.

I follow your point. Certainly this is more real than lizard people in the sewer, but not as real as people would have you believe when they casually exaggerate and insinuate that all the homeless around are from elsewhere and are being trucked in to this day.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#857

Post by apwell23 »

account42 wrote: post #849
apwell23 wrote: post #763

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i know someone who is taking care of a parent who is bedridden and needs daiper changes every few hours. Whats suprising to me is that these parents choose to punish their kids instead of end of ending their life. selfish fucks!!

Absolutely vile how you can frame wanting to continue living as "punishing their kids".

Talk to me when you have to put your life on hold and change diapers 6 times a day while tolerating abuse from dementia patient.

Did you tell you kids that this what you have in store for them because you want to "continue to live" regardless of pain that causes to ppl around you? Absolutely selfish and Vile .

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#858

Post by jacobgkau »

squigz wrote: post #854
jacobgkau wrote: post #852

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should have included the "widespread" disclaimer rather than making an absolute statement if they wanted that generous reading.

Well I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that people will understand that any system will be prone to abuse - what's more important is how much it realistically enables, and how it responds to that abuse

That's a great attitude when you're talking about other people (a.k.a. numbers). We'll see if you have the same attitude when it's you or someone you know.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#859

Post by squigz »

jacobgkau wrote: post #858
squigz wrote: post #854

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that people will understand that any system will be prone to abuse - what's more important is how much it realistically enables, and how it responds to that abuse

That's a great attitude when you're talking about other people (a.k.a. numbers). We'll see if you have the same attitude when it's you or someone you know.

I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make. If it were someone I knew, I would be upset, yes, and would pursue options for justice - which is, as I said, the more important aspect of such a system. Furthermore, even if my position changed if it were one of my loved ones, I wouldn't think my emotionally-charged thinking should be used to craft legislation.

If you're advocating for systems that cannot possibly be abused... good luck. Providing benefits to society often comes with avenues of potential abuse.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#860

Post by michael1999 »

Tiktaalik wrote: post #856
michael1999 wrote: post #846

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't quite understand your point. I contradicted you because I'm old, and I'm getting tired of people calling things that I vividly remember "urban legends". Lizard people in the sewers is an urban legend. That mean old drunk giving one-way tickets to Vancouver is history.

The point is that there's a difference between "this is a thing that has happened" and "this is a thing that happens ". The latter thing is the toxic exaggeration of the truth IMO. Like you're absolutely right that this particular rare event has happened before and I'm not discounting that, but the phrasing of the OPs story more suggests at the form of this story that is the myth that this is a trend and frequent occ…

Please don't call real events that you acknowledge "urban legends". You demean our cognitive commons with language like that, and undermine your own credibility.
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